Realization Unfolding

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:23 am

Ok Harrison, Let's make a check poing
can you please tell me please which one of the following list you still believe ?


1-I AM MY NAME /
2-I AM THIS IMAGE IN THE MIRROR I HAVE A BODU I AM IN THIS BODY OR MIND,
3-THERE IS A CENTER EXPERIENCING LIFE,
4-THERE IS CONTROL, I CAN CONTROL THINGS
5-I HAVE FREE WILL,
6-I CAN DECIDE - CHOOSE THINGS,
7-YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, NOW, PAST FUTURE HISTORY ETC. IS REAL
8-THERE ARE OTHERS AND I AM SEPARATE THEN THEM"
9-(I understand intellectually but..) THERE IS A FEELING OF A ME AND IT IS A PROOF OF A SEPERATE I / SELF / ME
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
Aobi
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:08 am

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:09 am

1-I AM MY NAME /
I don’t believe this
2-I AM THIS IMAGE IN THE MIRROR I HAVE A BODU I AM IN THIS BODY OR MIND,
I don’t believe this either
3-THERE IS A CENTER EXPERIENCING LIFE,
I don’t believe this
4-THERE IS CONTROL, I CAN CONTROL THINGS
Nope
5-I HAVE FREE WILL,
6-I CAN DECIDE - CHOOSE THINGS,
If I can’t control my thoughts, the things going on around me, the people I interact with, or anything, then I shouldn’t have free will or the ability to choose things. Stuff just happens with or without me there experiencing it.
7-YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, NOW, PAST FUTURE HISTORY ETC. IS REAL
I don’t believe this
8-THERE ARE OTHERS AND I AM SEPARATE THEN THEM"
No
9-(I understand intellectually but..) THERE IS A FEELING OF A ME AND IT IS A PROOF OF A SEPERATE I / SELF / ME
I don’t feel like there is a separate self or anything like that I don’t think I fully realize this "oneness" yet.

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:34 am

1-I AM MY NAME /
I don’t believe this
2-I AM THIS IMAGE IN THE MIRROR I HAVE A BODU I AM IN THIS BODY OR MIND,
I don’t believe this either
3-THERE IS A CENTER EXPERIENCING LIFE,
I don’t believe this
4-THERE IS CONTROL, I CAN CONTROL THINGS
Nope
5-I HAVE FREE WILL,
6-I CAN DECIDE - CHOOSE THINGS,
If I can’t control my thoughts, the things going on around me, the people I interact with, or anything, then I shouldn’t have free will or the ability to choose things. Stuff just happens with or without me there experiencing it.
7-YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, NOW, PAST FUTURE HISTORY ETC. IS REAL
I don’t believe this
8-THERE ARE OTHERS AND I AM SEPARATE THEN THEM"
No
9-(I understand intellectually but..) THERE IS A FEELING OF A ME AND IT IS A PROOF OF A SEPERATE I / SELF / ME
I don’t feel like there is a separate self or anything like that I don’t think I fully realize this "oneness" yet.
Thank you for the answers
I see that you are clear on many aspects.

I don’t feel like there is a separate self or anything like that I don’t think I fully realize this "oneness" yet.
I understand your expectations bur oneness is not a special experience, it is a simple recognition of what experience is “between two thoughts”.
An undivided experience before thought starts labeling everything.
Now that you have seen thought labels everything as this and that.

But are they really seperate ?

let's look closer..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:53 am

Think about the exercises we did before,
check again;

Now at the place you sit,

-Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

-Listen to a sound again, can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowing known’?

-Is there a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

-Is there a gap between a feeler, felt and the feeling ?

-Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer?


-Please bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend". Then bring up a thought about a character labelled "stranger".

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts? Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend". After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me”.

Is there really a difference? Look!

So last of all:
What is it more than a thought saying "i am separate" ?
Oneness is just a word, there is no actual experience of that - but If there is nothing separate, isn't it the thought pointer of oneness ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
Aobi
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:08 am

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:15 am

Now at the place you sit,
-Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
There isn’t a direct boundary within my experience.

-Listen to a sound again, can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowing known’?
There is only knowing of sound. Without thought there is no dividing line between knowing and direct experience of sound.
-Is there a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
There is no boundary. Life is just life, I am not separate from anything I would consider “out there”
-Is there a gap between a feeler, felt and the feeling ?
Feelings are just experienced. There is no gap, anything that arises as a gap is just a thought. Nothing more.
-Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer?
No, there is just what is experienced in my direct experience.

-Please bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend". Then bring up a thought about a character labelled "stranger".

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts? Is there a true difference or is it just different content?
There’s nothing different about the thought. Both are just labels Ive associated with the characters.
Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend". After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me”.
Is there really a difference? Look!
There isn’t a difference either, both are just labels / thoughts. One isn’t different from the other.
So last of all:
What is it more than a thought saying "i am separate" ?
Oneness is just a word, there is no actual experience of that - but If there is nothing separate, isn't it the thought pointer of oneness ?
Im a little confused on this last question, are you saying that the thought is a pointer to oneness? Like if nothing in my actual experience is separate, then the thoughts aren’t separate as well, they’re almost like expressions of experience. Like the word oneness, it doesn’t have any actual experience itself, but it points to something that already exists and is being experienced.

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:34 am

Now at the place you sit,
-Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
There isn’t a direct boundary within my experience.

-Listen to a sound again, can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowing known’?
There is only knowing of sound. Without thought there is no dividing line between knowing and direct experience of sound.
-Is there a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
There is no boundary. Life is just life, I am not separate from anything I would consider “out there”
-Is there a gap between a feeler, felt and the feeling ?
Feelings are just experienced. There is no gap, anything that arises as a gap is just a thought. Nothing more.
-Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer?
No, there is just what is experienced in my direct experience.

-Please bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend". Then bring up a thought about a character labelled "stranger".

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts? Is there a true difference or is it just different content?
There’s nothing different about the thought. Both are just labels Ive associated with the characters.
Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend". After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me”.
Is there really a difference? Look!
There isn’t a difference either, both are just labels / thoughts. One isn’t different from the other.
So last of all:
What is it more than a thought saying "i am separate" ?
Oneness is just a word, there is no actual experience of that - but If there is nothing separate, isn't it the thought pointer of oneness ?
Im a little confused on this last question, are you saying that the thought is a pointer to oneness? Like if nothing in my actual experience is separate, then the thoughts aren’t separate as well, they’re almost like expressions of experience. Like the word oneness, it doesn’t have any actual experience itself, but it points to something that already exists and is being experienced.
Brilliant looking again Harrison.
About the last question..Now i see that it was not clear but you understood what i meant..
but it points to something that already exists and is being experienced
There is nothing to be experienced. Nothing to grasp.
There is only the experience.
You looked almost everywhere and could not find a separate self, me. No need for expectations.
Seeing that there is no separate self is not the end of the road.
IT can only be the beginning of a free fall.
Realising 'no self' happens, but there will also be periods of checking, and doubting, and rechecking, and that is all normal. This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit...so yo-yoing happens. There is clear seeing that there is no self and in the next moment this clarity is muddied...all normal experiences. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through though; and like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

So..

Do you have any doubt ?

Can you say a big fat NO to the existence of a separate self, me, I , Harrison ?

Do you have questions ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
Aobi
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:08 am

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:11 am

Do you have any doubt ?

Can you say a big fat NO to the existence of a separate self, me, I , Harrison ?

Do you have questions ?
Thank you for everything Adil. I don't have any doubts and I can definitely say no to the existence of me. I appreciate your clarity and support with looking and helping me come to this realization. Im happy to have met you and had the privilege of your guidance.

For some reason I don't have any questions to ask, I feel like you helped me realize the answers to my own questions I hadn't even thought of yet, however if something does arise I might make a quick post somewhere down the line.

Thank you again Adil

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:27 am

Do you have any doubt ?

Can you say a big fat NO to the existence of a separate self, me, I , Harrison ?

Do you have questions ?
Thank you for everything Adil. I don't have any doubts and I can definitely say no to the existence of me. I appreciate your clarity and support with looking and helping me come to this realization. Im happy to have met you and had the privilege of your guidance.

For some reason I don't have any questions to ask, I feel like you helped me realize the answers to my own questions I hadn't even thought of yet, however if something does arise I might make a quick post somewhere down the line.

Thank you again Adil
Thank you for your kind words Harrison, I was a pleasure guding you.
It is not my, it is life's work :)

So let's go for the final questions for my guide friends to see if we missed something or something is not clear..

Sending much love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:27 am

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
Aobi
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:08 am

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:26 am

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
There never was a separate self to begin with.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of separate self starts with thought and the association of "Me" alongside these thoughts. When thought arises, most tend to associate who they think they are and everything they've been taught about themselves to these thoughts. At an early age were conditioned to think we are a certain person, you're given a name and attributes, you learn concepts and ways of interpreting information which causes an illusion of a "separate self" that lies in thought.
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels calming to see this. Thought can be overwhelming at times, knowing that thought is simply mental noise and not reality is calming. This has become more and more noticeable in the past few days, for example while at work today we had a busy afternoon service, servers running around and orders flying in, essentially chaos. While I was getting order after order, surprisingly, I felt very neutral and alright. This was notable because I felt a sense of panic that comes with a rush, but I was able to let that thought come and go. Especially at work, its easy to get tied up in thought. When I took a step back and simply allowed everything to be as it was I felt alright.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?


Last week when I was looking at the question of the gap, specifically WHERE the gap was, I was confused and frustrated because I couldn’t find an answer. I was looking and getting more and more frustrated when all of a sudden it hit me, I was aware that all I was doing was looking for an answer in thought, not actually looking. It became clear that without this thought, there was no gap and there never was.
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
Decision, intention, free will, and things like this are all illusions. The “me” or “self” believes that it has control. It comes up with these constructs like free will to give itself the idea that it is somehow controlling what is going on, when in actuality all it is is just experience and nothing more. An example of this could be my heartbeat, I don’t choose or decide to make my heart pump blood, it just happens. Same with thought, for a long time I thought I had control over my thoughts and that I could silence them. Only after looking can I see how impossible it is to stop thoughts in their tracks. I can’t stop a thought before it happens, and I can’t predict a thought before it’s been thought, I can only experience what is happening now in this present moment, nothing more.
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
Im responsible for where I put my attention. Its easy to get lost in thought if you put your attention there, placing it in the present moment and being aware of experience is my responsibility, and not to get lost in the fiction of thought.

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:42 am

Thank you very much for the answers Harrison..

Before we ask from our guide friends to check our dialogue i want us to be crystal clear.
Let's look at this one last thing please.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
Im responsible for where I put my attention. Its easy to get lost in thought if you put your attention there, placing it in the present moment and being aware of experience is my responsibility, and not to get lost in the fiction of thought.

Are you really responsible for where you put your attention ?
Let's look,

Responsibility often points to a doer

Are you the owner of the attention to rotate it ?

Who is responsible for attention (which thought to arise) ?

Sit down and relax. Observe this focus of attention... see how it wanders.

It simply focusses on whatever happens in the moment.

This thought arises..That thought arises..Another thought arises and says i am lost in thought i must be back.

Can you choose not to get lost in a thought ?

IS there a decider to place it in the present moment ?

LOOK!
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
Aobi
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:08 am

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:33 am

Are you the owner of the attention to rotate it ?
No, I am not the owner of attention, there is no owner to attention.
Who is responsible for attention (which thought to arise) ?
No one is responsible for attention, because "I" have no control over the thoughts that arise or which direction my attention focuses to.

Sit down and relax. Observe this focus of attention... see how it wanders.
It simply focusses on whatever happens in the moment.
This thought arises..That thought arises..Another thought arises and says i am lost in thought i must be back.
Can you choose not to get lost in a thought ?
I can't choose wether to get lost in thought or not. Thought just happens, I can't choose to deliberately get lost in thought when I am already experiencing the thought, it just happens.
IS there a decider to place it in the present moment ?
No, it simply lies in the present moment, there is no decider that controls it.

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:39 pm

Are you the owner of the attention to rotate it ?
No, I am not the owner of attention, there is no owner to attention.
Who is responsible for attention (which thought to arise) ?
No one is responsible for attention, because "I" have no control over the thoughts that arise or which direction my attention focuses to.

Sit down and relax. Observe this focus of attention... see how it wanders.
It simply focusses on whatever happens in the moment.
This thought arises..That thought arises..Another thought arises and says i am lost in thought i must be back.
Can you choose not to get lost in a thought ?
I can't choose wether to get lost in thought or not. Thought just happens, I can't choose to deliberately get lost in thought when I am already experiencing the thought, it just happens.
IS there a decider to place it in the present moment ?
No, it simply lies in the present moment, there is no decider that controls it.
Thank you for the brilliant looking again Harrison.
So let me ask that question from the final questions again Harrison..

What are you responsible for?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
Aobi
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:08 am

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:50 am

What are you responsible for?
I am not responsible for anything. Anything that I think I am responsible for is just a clever way of my mind finding attachment in the illusionary world. Since “I” never existed it couldn’t be or ever have been responsible for anything.

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:41 am

What are you responsible for?
I am not responsible for anything. Anything that I think I am responsible for is just a clever way of my mind finding attachment in the illusionary world. Since “I” never existed it couldn’t be or ever have been responsible for anything.
:)
Anything that I think I am responsible for is just a clever way of my mind finding attachment in the illusionary world.
There is no responsibility of any kind! Period!
:)


Dear Harrison now i will send you the final questions again.

You can copy paste your other answers and correct this answer and write again please.
Then let's ask our guide friends to take a look..

Thank you very much
Sending much love
:)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests