Realization Unfolding

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:07 am

For a moment stop and take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment:

Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all color.
Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them.
And notice that you're not making them happen.
You're not conducting the orchestra of experience
And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.
You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it.
You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts..

Focus this and take a good look and tell me please

Where are you really ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:15 am

Is it possible to remove "me" ?
how can you remove something unexisting ?
Isnt it only a thought links sensation to another thought like there is a sensations in the chest (thought says: it is fear i know this from the memory(another thought) ?
No, its not possible to remove "me" because you I can't remove something that never existed in the first place. Thought is what links sensation to another thought as well, like a cycle of continuing thought that just keeps linking and linking.
Where are you really ?
Im here in this moment, present and experiencing these thoughts and experiences.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:06 pm

Is it possible to remove "me" ?
how can you remove something unexisting ?
Isnt it only a thought links sensation to another thought like there is a sensations in the chest (thought says: it is fear i know this from the memory(another thought) ?

No, its not possible to remove "me" because you I can't remove something that never existed in the first place. Thought is what links sensation to another thought as well, like a cycle of continuing thought that just keeps linking and linking.

Thank you for the reply Harrison :)

Sure thought links and labels it.


Where are you really ?
i am here ... experiencing these thoughts and experiences.

[/quote]

Look at what is experiencing..
Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer?
Is there a witness of experience somehow detached from what is experienced?
Is there a you, outside of what is happening?

Focus on feeling, what do you feel right now? Where in the body that sensation is located? What is that sensation without a label?

Now look behind, is there a feeler of sensation?
Is there I that feels it?
Where is it ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:24 am

Look at what is experiencing..
Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer?
Is there a witness of experience somehow detached from what is experienced?
Is there a you, outside of what is happening?

Focus on feeling, what do you feel right now? Where in the body that sensation is located? What is that sensation without a label?

Now look behind, is there a feeler of sensation?
Is there I that feels it?
Where is it ?
I can see a gap between experienced and experiencer, like there is something beyond but at the same time behind what I experience like a vail. I read the previous post while I was on my walk home from work and I noticed something.. bigger in my awareness. The feeling was over before I knew it, but I noticed this gap in experienced vs experiencer.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:21 am

Look at what is experiencing..
Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer?
Is there a witness of experience somehow detached from what is experienced?
Is there a you, outside of what is happening?

Focus on feeling, what do you feel right now? Where in the body that sensation is located? What is that sensation without a label?

Now look behind, is there a feeler of sensation?
Is there I that feels it?
Where is it ?
I can see a gap between experienced and experiencer, like there is something beyond but at the same time behind what I experience like a vail. I read the previous post while I was on my walk home from work and I noticed something.. bigger in my awareness. The feeling was over before I knew it, but I noticed this gap in experienced vs experiencer.
Can you describe this gap please ?
How can you know this ?
What is the direct experience of this gap ? Is it a smell ? taste ? color ? sound ? sensation ?
Or is it just another thought ?

Look!
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:44 am

without thought how is this "gap" known"?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:32 am

Can you describe this gap please ?
How can you know this ?
What is the direct experience of this gap ? Is it a smell ? taste ? color ? sound ? sensation ?
Or is it just another thought ?
Describing it is hard. It’s like there’s there’s “me” the experiencer and something behind that feels deeper and vast. The direct experience of it isn’t really a feeling like thought, taste, color, or smell, it’s more like an awareness or like a space.
without thought how is this "gap" known"?
The gap appears to be in-between thoughts and sensations or maybe beyond that. When my thoughts aren’t the center of my attention and I notice the

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:36 am

Looks like the ending was cut off in the last post, here's my full response!
without thought how is this "gap" known"?
The gap appears to be in-between thoughts and sensations or maybe beyond that. when my thoughts aren't the center of my attention and I bring my presence to the stillness of the room I start to notice its presence as well. Not through thought noticing but like aware of it.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:58 am

Hmmm nice thought story. :)
Without thought how is thought known to be a thought and without thought how is a gap actually known?
Please describe this "I" that is "behind that is the experiencer" and where it is located exactly.
You are assuming that there is an experiencer of experience.

I want you to close your eyes and listen to sounds.
Then choose one sound.
Now look very very carefully, where does sound end and the knowing of sound begin?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:00 am

In other words, where can a border between sound and the knowing of the sound be found?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:45 am

In other words, where can a border between sound and the knowing of the sound be found
Without thought a gap isn’t known.

For this I used the sound of my fan in my room. Without thought the knowing of this sound that I call the sound of the fan doesn’t exist. It’s just experience of noise that I’ve labeled as a fan.
The gap itself is a thought about a separation that I’ve created, and what I attribute to this thought is just more thought. If all that is within my reality is what lies in my actual experience then what I thought I experienced as the gap is actually something that exists currently in my present experience, just bundled up and labeled as the “gap”

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:23 pm

In other words, where can a border between sound and the knowing of the sound be found
Without thought a gap isn’t known.

For this I used the sound of my fan in my room. Without thought the knowing of this sound that I call the sound of the fan doesn’t exist. It’s just experience of noise that I’ve labeled as a fan.
The gap itself is a thought about a separation that I’ve created, and what I attribute to this thought is just more thought. If all that is within my reality is what lies in my actual experience then what I thought I experienced as the gap is actually something that exists currently in my present experience, just bundled up and labeled as the “gap”
yes.
beautiful looking.
Without thought the knowing of this sound that you call the sound of the fan doesn’t exist.
it is only what is.
Gap is also another thought. That's it.
Thank you.

Let's look now at the idea of time and cause effect story..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:25 pm

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next? If not can you talk about cause & effect ?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving? Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began? How long does the ‘now’ last? Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'? What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Have you ever actually experienced the past ?
I am not asking have you had a thought in the present about an apparent past..
Have you ever actually experienced that past to which your thought refers ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:17 am

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next? If not can you talk about cause & effect ?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving? Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began? How long does the ‘now’ last? Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'? What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Have you ever actually experienced the past ?
I am not asking have you had a thought in the present about an apparent past..
Have you ever actually experienced that past to which your thought refers ?

There isn’t anything like one moment giving way to the next. All that is true and reality is in the present moment, now, not in a thought about the past or future of things leading into things.

There is no speed in the present moment, there’s just what is happening now. The now is just present, I can’t find a particular starting and ending point to experience. Things in my experience can have a "start" and "ending" but these labels come after thought arises about a certain experience, like seeing lightning strike, or hearing a car horn. You experience the experience of these things and when the experience changes thoughts start forming, causing the associating of labels.

Ive never experienced the past that my thought refers because all that is is just a story created by thought, there’s no direct experience of it so it can’t be reality.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:18 am

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next? If not can you talk about cause & effect ?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving? Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began? How long does the ‘now’ last? Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'? What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Have you ever actually experienced the past ?
I am not asking have you had a thought in the present about an apparent past..
Have you ever actually experienced that past to which your thought refers ?

There isn’t anything like one moment giving way to the next. All that is true and reality is in the present moment, now, not in a thought about the past or future of things leading into things.

There is no speed in the present moment, there’s just what is happening now. The now is just present, I can’t find a particular starting and ending point to experience. Things in my experience can have a "start" and "ending" but these labels come after thought arises about a certain experience, like seeing lightning strike, or hearing a car horn. You experience the experience of these things and when the experience changes thoughts start forming, causing the associating of labels.

Ive never experienced the past that my thought refers because all that is is just a story created by thought, there’s no direct experience of it so it can’t be reality.
Brilliant looking Harrison
Thank you.
Sure there is no time.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


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