Realization Unfolding

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:36 am

The actual experience of the body is sensation from current experience.

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:37 am

I forgot to use the quote feature before posting my last response, sorry!

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:56 am

The actual experience of the body is sensation from current experience.
Yes let's make this more clear..

Label/word (thought) ‘body’ does not know anything about a body
Sensation does not know anything about a body
Color does not know anything about a body
Sound does not know anything about a body
Taste does not know anything about a body
Smell does not know anything about a body


A sensation is not a body
A thought is not a body
A image is not a body
A sound is not a body
A smell is not a body
A taste is not a body


There is NO BODY! Period.

All clear ? IF noy we can explore more with exercises if you like..

Sending much love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:00 pm

Meanwhile let's also look at the idea of "TIME" shall we ?

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'? What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
Or in direct asking "Have you ever actually experienced the past ?"
I am not asking have you had a thought in the present about an apparent past..
Have you ever actually experienced that past to which your thought refers ?


Sending much love
Waiting for your answers...
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:43 am

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
When “now” is moving with time it’s just a thought. Now is always present
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
Reality doesn’t fall like dominos, like a predictable inevitability. It just happens, so one moment doesn’t Necessarily follow the other, reality just happens and exists in the present moment, so there can’t be experience experiencing things happening one after another, only what is currently present and happening.
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'? What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
The past is just mental noise that comes after the present moment. We reflect and see things that “could’ve” been in our minds and focus on that rather than what’s in reality. That’s what creates the past, a longing to change what has already occurred
Or in direct asking "Have you ever actually experienced the past ?"
I am not asking have you had a thought in the present about an apparent past..
Have you ever actually experienced that past to which your thought refers ?
Looking on it, no matter how emotional the past is, it has never been experienced by me. I can get lost in the story of what the past could’ve been in my own mind, and the story of how the past is in my own mind. But it isn’t reality cause it isn’t in my direct experience, so I couldn’t have experience the past that thought refers too.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:35 pm

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
When “now” is moving with time it’s just a thought. Now is always present
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
Reality doesn’t fall like dominos, like a predictable inevitability. It just happens, so one moment doesn’t Necessarily follow the other, reality just happens and exists in the present moment, so there can’t be experience experiencing things happening one after another, only what is currently present and happening.
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'? What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
The past is just mental noise that comes after the present moment. We reflect and see things that “could’ve” been in our minds and focus on that rather than what’s in reality. That’s what creates the past, a longing to change what has already occurred
Or in direct asking "Have you ever actually experienced the past ?"
I am not asking have you had a thought in the present about an apparent past..
Have you ever actually experienced that past to which your thought refers ?
Looking on it, no matter how emotional the past is, it has never been experienced by me. I can get lost in the story of what the past could’ve been in my own mind, and the story of how the past is in my own mind. But it isn’t reality cause it isn’t in my direct experience, so I couldn’t have experience the past that thought refers too.
Very good looking Harrison.
Past, present moment, future is just thoughts appearing.

So ask more clear,

Is there a body ? Do you have a body ?
Is there something called time ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:37 pm

So related to time what can memory be ?

There is a belief that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.
That memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it. Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly? What is the memory ‘made of’? WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought? Is there any ?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:46 am

What is memory exactly? What is the memory ‘made of’? WHEN does the memory appear?
Memory is just a thought made of feelings. Personally, smells trigger memories more than anything so memories are a thought response to things in my actual experience.
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought? Is there any ?
There really isn't a difference, although sometimes I get more immersed in a "memory" over a "thought"
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?
Because if its thought about it has to be in the past since it isn't in direct experience.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:28 am

Thank you for the answers Harrison,
What is memory exactly? What is the memory ‘made of’? WHEN does the memory appear?
Memory is just a thought made of feelings. Personally, smells trigger memories more than anything so memories are a thought response to things in my actual experience.

What are feelings Harrison ? Are they sensations ? Are they thoughts ? What do you see ?


What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought? Is there any ?
There really isn't a difference, although sometimes I get more immersed in a "memory" over a "thought"
Sure both are thoughts appearing now!
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?
Because if its thought about it has to be in the past since it isn't in direct experience.

Ok but what is the actual experience of a past ?
Does "past" really exist ?
If not what is it more then a thought appearing in the now ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:54 am

What are feelings Harrison ? Are they sensations ? Are they thoughts ? What do you see ?
Feelings are sensations, and these sensations can lead into thoughts.
Ok but what is the actual experience of a past ?
Does "past" really exist ?
If not what is it more then a thought appearing in the now ?
There is no actual experience of the past because the past is just a label, nothing more. The past is just a thought that's triggered by sensations in the present moment.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:19 am

What are feelings Harrison ? Are they sensations ? Are they thoughts ? What do you see ?
Feelings are sensations, and these sensations can lead into thoughts.
Ok but what is the actual experience of a past ?
Does "past" really exist ?
If not what is it more then a thought appearing in the now ?
There is no actual experience of the past because the past is just a label, nothing more. The past is just a thought that's triggered by sensations in the present moment.

Thank you for the answers Harrison

without thought, how is it known that sensations can lead to thoughts or thoughts can lead to sensation?

For something to cause something else is the belief in separation and the belief in time.

Please do this;

1. Put aside 10-15 minutes and sit quietly with your eyes closed.
2. Think of a story that brings up the sensation labelled as ‘anxiety’ or ‘fear’ - one that you can feel in the body but not too intense that it overwhelms you.
3. Then with eyes still closed, I want you to LOOK very very carefully to see if you can find/see an actual link between the thought and the sensation. You are looking to find if there is something that links the thought/story with the sensation.
4. If the sensation starts to dissipate/weaken, then bring the story to mind again until the sensation is felt, then continue looking to see if you can see/find a link. You are looking for an actual link that connects the thought/story with the sensation.
5. If you find yourself following thought instead of looking carefully for the link, just bring your attention gently back to the sensation and continue looking.

Do this exercise at least 3-4 times throughout the day making sure to look very carefully.
Let me know what you find.

sending love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:10 am

without thought, how is it known that sensations can lead to thoughts or thoughts can lead to sensation?
I can’t find a direct link between sensations to thoughts or thoughts to sensations. I have sensations and I have thoughts. One doesn’t come before the other and one doesn’t follow after, I just have what is present in this actual moment.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:16 am

without thought, how is it known that sensations can lead to thoughts or thoughts can lead to sensation?
I can’t find a direct link between sensations to thoughts or thoughts to sensations. I have sensations and I have thoughts. One doesn’t come before the other and one doesn’t follow after, I just have what is present in this actual moment.
But thought describes what that sensation is right ?


And i am waiting the results of the last exercise also Harrison,
Thank you

Sending love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Aobi
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby Aobi » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:47 am

In this activity I was reflecting back on my days in high school where I was a diver. Before meets and specifically before I was supposed to dive I would get very anxious and sometimes afraid, I was thinking about how I could mess up and fail. These thoughts were kind of like a plague. Along with these feelings I noticed other sensations in my body, like a pit in my stomach and tension in my chest and hands.

One thing I noticed was that the fear I had felt back in this memory was based entirely around something that hadn’t happened yet. I was so lost in the story about events that haven’t occurred yet (like me falling off the diving board or failing a dive) that I completely lost sight of the present moment.

While looking, it seemed like the only thing linking these thoughts and feelings was “I” or “me”. Like the thoughts and anxiety “I” brought up felt real but if I remove “me” from the equation there’s no more link between the sensations and thought.

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adilerten
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Re: Realization Unfolding

Postby adilerten » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:05 am

In this activity I was reflecting back on my days in high school where I was a diver. Before meets and specifically before I was supposed to dive I would get very anxious and sometimes afraid, I was thinking about how I could mess up and fail. These thoughts were kind of like a plague. Along with these feelings I noticed other sensations in my body, like a pit in my stomach and tension in my chest and hands.

One thing I noticed was that the fear I had felt back in this memory was based entirely around something that hadn’t happened yet. I was so lost in the story about events that haven’t occurred yet (like me falling off the diving board or failing a dive) that I completely lost sight of the present moment.

While looking, it seemed like the only thing linking these thoughts and feelings was “I” or “me”. Like the thoughts and anxiety “I” brought up felt real but if I remove “me” from the equation there’s no more link between the sensations and thought.
Thanks for the reply Harrison :)
Nice to hear from you..
if I remove “me” from the equation there’s no more link between the sensations and thought.
Is it possible to remove "me" ?
how can you remove something unexisting ?
Isnt it only a thought links sensation to another thought like there is a sensations in the chest (thought says: it is fear i know this from the memory(another thought) ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


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