Not sure if I have crossed the gate

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Zazen01
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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby Zazen01 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:15 pm

Hi Kay :)
The purpose of the exercise is for you to LOOK at what IS and begin to see that sensation is simply a sensation, no matter what thought labels it as. It is now your job to keep LOOKING until it becomes clear. In other words, you can’t just sit and ponder what we are exploring, you must practically apply the ideas to your life; see them in action…actually do the work every day, day in and day out.
I actually do the work Kay! Dont think im just here 'wasting' time here for giggles lol. Obviously everything that has been explored here I do incorporate. And yes, I understand that the objective is to see what IS, and that was is is just a sensation. So thank you for your support.
If you don’t think about it, do you know that this sensation is something called ‘fear’?
Is there any inherent fear in the sensation itself?
No, its just a sensation.
Go to the sensation at the soles of the feet. Would you label that sensation ‘fear’? Or is it just a neutral, undefined tingling sensation?
Neutral sensation. Just a sensation.
Now compare the sensation of the soles of the feet – which is just neutral sensation – and the sensation in your chest (labelled ‘fear’)…what is the difference between them?
Thought would say one is more intense, but in reality theres no difference, both just sensations.
Thought would say one is a little more ‘intense’, but apart from that – any difference?
No
All the reasons why ‘you’ caved in to having a drink is simply a story. To what exactly does that story apply?
To thought. AE of tought.
Love the diligence to this exercise. Yes it only SEEMS that fear is a response. To whom or what does it matter that thoughts appear suggesting that the sensation and thought go hand in hand?
To thought.
Thought also suggests that fairies are real…does that make it so? Thought also suggested that the earth was flat and that there is an actual separate entity called Zazen…does that make it so?
No
Where does sensation or thought park itself waiting for a particular thought or thought story to appear? Is there a thought parking garage somewhere? If so…where?
Nowhere to park, they just are, then theyre not, or something else IS.
How does thought or sensation know that its cue to appear has happened and that they need to now present themselves to be seen and felt?
They dont know... its just a story appearing and disappearing.
Seen and felt by what exactly?
Lol, no one.

quote]Wouldn’t this make thought and sensation aware? Where would thought hide itself…waiting for a particular sensation to appear, so it knows to appear? [/quote] Its not that thought or sensation is aware, awareness is aware, as being that, being the story of Z.
But to cap this all off….what is the difference between thought and sensation, between colour and smell, between taste and sound?
No difference at all... just one ThoughtSensationColorSmellTasteSound awareing in this Now.

Thanks Kay!

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forgetmenot
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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:47 am

Good morning Zazen,
The purpose of the exercise is for you to LOOK at what IS and begin to see that sensation is simply a sensation, no matter what thought labels it as. It is now your job to keep LOOKING until it becomes clear. In other words, you can’t just sit and ponder what we are exploring, you must practically apply the ideas to your life; see them in action…actually do the work every day, day in and day out.
I actually do the work Kay! Dont think im just here 'wasting' time here for giggles lol. Obviously everything that has been explored here I do incorporate. And yes, I understand that the objective is to see what IS, and that was is is just a sensation. So thank you for your support.
Yes, I know you do the work and I thank you for that. I will just put out a reminder now and again, just to make sure that what is being done here is applied daily. My desire, if I can put it that way, is for you to have the realisation, so I want to make sure you capitalise on everything we are doing and everything you are realising as we explore.
Love the diligence to this exercise. Yes it only SEEMS that fear is a response. To whom or what does it matter that thoughts appear suggesting that the sensation and thought go hand in hand?
To thought.
Does it really matter to thought? Does thought care or know about anything?
A thought is much like a piece of graffiti scribbled on a wall. Graffiti doesn't know the wall exists. It doesn't know it is appearing on the wall. It doesn't know whether its words are true or not. It doesn't know that it is saying anything. It doesn't know anything *whatsoever*. Similarly, a thought is just a bit of decoration appearing in THIS. It appears. You are aware of it. But it knows nothing whatsoever about reality. And that is all there is to thought
But to cap this all off….what is the difference between thought and sensation, between colour and smell, between taste and sound?
No difference at all... just one ThoughtSensationColorSmellTasteSound awareing in this Now.
What is it exactly that is awaring? Describe what it is in precise detail and tell me where it is located exactly.


Seeing
Currently there are words on the screen being read. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What reads these words?
Is there anything that is reading?

Look around in the room. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What sees?
Is there a seer somewhere?
If yes, WHAT is it, and WHERE is it?

Hearing
Pay attention for the background sounds. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestions of thoughts.
Does a hearer arise in the actual experience?
Is there somewhere a hearer?

Smelling
Smell something, an orange, coffee or the hand.
In the fragrance that arises, is there any direct evidence that there is a smeller (or a nose) that is doing the smelling, or is there only smelling?

Of course, thoughts and mental images suggest ‘explanations’, but when they are examined closely, are they really the case?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Zazen01
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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby Zazen01 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:48 pm

Hi Kay :)
Yes, I know you do the work and I thank you for that. I will just put out a reminder now and again, just to make sure that what is being done here is applied daily. My desire, if I can put it that way, is for you to have the realisation, so I want to make sure you capitalise on everything we are doing and everything you are realising as we explore.
I really appreciate your guidance Kay and patience.
Love the diligence to this exercise. Yes it only SEEMS that fear is a response. To whom or what does it matter that thoughts appear suggesting that the sensation and thought go hand in hand?
To thought.
Does it really matter to thought? Does thought care or know about anything?
A thought is much like a piece of graffiti scribbled on a wall. Graffiti doesn't know the wall exists. It doesn't know it is appearing on the wall. It doesn't know whether its words are true or not. It doesn't know that it is saying anything. It doesn't know anything *whatsoever*. Similarly, a thought is just a bit of decoration appearing in THIS. It appears. You are aware of it. But it knows nothing whatsoever about reality. And that is all there is to thought
I guess I also could have answered it matters to me, but who is me? Then a answer could be the appearance that it matters is just a story, a grafitti like you say.
No difference at all... just one ThoughtSensationColorSmellTasteSound awareing in this Now.
What is it exactly that is awaring? Describe what it is in precise detail and tell me where it is located exactly.
No one or thing is awaring, awareness is just is as THAT.... and location, theres isnt one. Its just is.
Seeing
Currently there are words on the screen being read. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What reads these words?
Is there anything that is reading?
No one reads the words, lol. Its a paradox obviously. Thought says I am the one that reads, but then looking I dont find that one. So... no one reads. Just words being read, colores.
Look around in the room. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What sees?
Is there a seer somewhere?
If yes, WHAT is it, and WHERE is it?
No seer to be found, the seeing is the seer. I know you might thats thought talking. But no seer, no. Just the seeing, experience. Especially if I look closely, its quite clear.
Hearing
Pay attention for the background sounds. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestions of thoughts.
Does a hearer arise in the actual experience?
Is there somewhere a hearer?
No, lol. Theres just the sound.
Smelling
Smell something, an orange, coffee or the hand.
In the fragrance that arises, is there any direct evidence that there is a smeller (or a nose) that is doing the smelling, or is there only smelling?
Only the smelling
Of course, thoughts and mental images suggest ‘explanations’, but when they are examined closely, are they really the case?
When examining closely, its always quite obvious theres just the experience, no experiencer to be found in seeing, smelling, hearing, even in moving the hand, no controller of that... etc.

Thank you Kay :)

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forgetmenot
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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:27 am

Hello Z,
Love the diligence to this exercise. Yes it only SEEMS that fear is a response. To whom or what does it matter that thoughts appear suggesting that the sensation and thought go hand in hand?

To thought.
Does it really matter to thought? Does thought care or know about anything?
I guess I also could have answered it matters to me, but who is me? Then a answer could be the appearance that it matters is just a story, a grafitti like you say.
Yes…it is only a thought story that it matters to someone or something. “It matters to thought”, is an appearing thought. Is there a thinker of thought?. Can you find anyone or anything that it would matter to?

Does it matter to colour, sound, sensation, taste, smell, thought?
No difference at all... just one ThoughtSensationColorSmellTasteSound awareing in this Now.
What is it exactly that is awaring? Describe what it is in precise detail and tell me where it is located exactly.
No one or thing is awaring, awareness is just is as THAT.... and location, theres isnt one. Its just is.
For something to be aware of something else = separation.
How is colour, sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation awared exactly? Where does experience end and the awareness of it begin?

Seeing
Currently there are words on the screen being read. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What reads these words?
Is there anything that is reading?
No one reads the words, lol. Its a paradox obviously. Thought says I am the one that reads, but then looking I dont find that one. So... no one reads. Just words being read, colores.
First, I want you to have a look at these “words”. What is the AE of these “words”?

Second, if it appears as if words are seen through looking with the eyes, then eyes would be needed, right? What is actually known right now about eyes?

And third, look at whatever is in front of you. Is it seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes), or is it like a windscreen view? Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is there seeing separate from what’s seen, or is there just what’s seen? Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?

Look around in the room. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestion of thoughts.
What sees?
Is there a seer somewhere?
If yes, WHAT is it, and WHERE is it?
No seer to be found, the seeing is the seer. I know you might thats thought talking. But no seer, no. Just the seeing, experience. Especially if I look closely, its quite clear.
The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body, as a separate item is responsible for 'DOING' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' etc

Sit quietly somewhere where you won't be disturbed.
Take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and then close your eyes.

When closing the eyes, notice there is the experience of 'blackness'. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are just noticing ‘blackness’.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is simply AE of colour labelled ‘black’?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than seeing ‘black’?
3) Can what is seeing ‘black’ found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is ‘seeing’ ‘black’?
What do you find?

Is there anything that is witnessing the colour labelled ‘black’? Or ‘black’ just is?

Look very carefully. Where does ‘seeing’ end and colour begin? Can a dividing line between ‘seeing’ and colour be found? Or is there just seeingcolour? In other words is there a boundary between what is known ie colour and the knowing of it? Or is there simply knowingknown – ie no dividing line, no boundary?

Can a 'see-er' be found at all in 'what is being seen' ie AE colour?

If that is all, and no INHERENT SEE-ER found . . . would anything that is suggested as the see-er be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?


Okay….then open the eyes and look around.

Is there a difference between the ‘black’ when eyes are closed and ‘colour’ when eyes are open, or are they both simply the appearance of colour?

Is there anything that is witnessing/awaring colour?

Is the ‘see-er’ actually separate from the seen, or is it all a singular experience ie see-erseen/seeingcolour?

Hearing
Pay attention for the background sounds. Go to the actual experience itself, and ignore the suggestions of thoughts.
Does a hearer arise in the actual experience?
Is there somewhere a hearer?
No, lol. Theres just the sound.
Yes..just sound.
There would have to be a something/someone to be actually hearing sound. Do the ears hear?

Smelling
Smell something, an orange, coffee or the hand.
In the fragrance that arises, is there any direct evidence that there is a smeller (or a nose) that is doing the smelling, or is there only smelling?
Only the smelling
What is it that is smelling exactly? Where does smell end and the knowing of smell begin? Is there a nose that smells?

Of course, thoughts and mental images suggest ‘explanations’, but when they are examined closely, are they really the case?
When examining closely, its always quite obvious theres just the experience, no experiencer to be found in seeing, smelling, hearing, even in moving the hand, no controller of that... etc.
There is no “THE” experience. There is only experience itself ie soundsmelltastethoughtcoloursensation.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Zazen01
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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby Zazen01 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:06 pm

Hi Kay!
Yes…it is only a thought story that it matters to someone or something. “It matters to thought”, is an appearing thought. Is there a thinker of thought?. Can you find anyone or anything that it would matter to?
No thinker that can be found.
Does it matter to colour, sound, sensation, taste, smell, thought?
No
For something to be aware of something else = separation.
How is colour, sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation awared exactly? Where does experience end and the awareness of it begin?
Theres no limit or border where one ends and the other begins. It just is. Talking about it becomes a separation because you go to thought to explain it.
First, I want you to have a look at these “words”. What is the AE of these “words”?
Color
Second, if it appears as if words are seen through looking with the eyes, then eyes would be needed, right? What is actually known right now about eyes?
Nothing is known about eyes.
And third, look at whatever is in front of you. Is it seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes), or is it like a windscreen view?
Just as screen view.
Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is there seeing separate from what’s seen, or is there just what’s seen? Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?
Seeing is not separate from the seen. There is just experience.
When closing the eyes, notice there is the experience of 'blackness'. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are just noticing ‘blackness’.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is simply AE of colour labelled ‘black’?
Lol... yes.
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than seeing ‘black’?
No
3) Can what is seeing ‘black’ found?
No, just blackness
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is ‘seeing’ ‘black’?
No! lol.
What do you find?
Only black, void, emptiness, space, eternal black lol.
Is there anything that is witnessing the colour labelled ‘black’? Or ‘black’ just is?
Black just is
Look very carefully. Where does ‘seeing’ end and colour begin?
No limit or border or distinction to be found.
Can a dividing line between ‘seeing’ and colour be found?
No
Or is there just seeingcolour? In other words is there a boundary between what is known ie colour and the knowing of it? Or is there simply knowingknown – ie no dividing line, no boundary?
No boundary, no line... just KnowingKnown... SeeingColor... Color that sees?...
Can a 'see-er' be found at all in 'what is being seen' ie AE colour?
No, nothing at all...
If that is all, and no INHERENT SEE-ER found . . . would anything that is suggested as the see-er be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?
Not sure about this one... I would say that if I go to thought, yes, then I would say something is seeing, the color is seeing? But if I dont go to thought, theres just black.
Okay….then open the eyes and look around.

Is there a difference between the ‘black’ when eyes are closed and ‘colour’ when eyes are open, or are they both simply the appearance of colour?
No diference, just colors, colors eye open, black with eyes closed.
Is there anything that is witnessing/awaring colour?
No
Is the ‘see-er’ actually separate from the seen, or is it all a singular experience ie see-erseen/seeingcolour?
One experience, one singular SeeingColor experience thats not diferent from HearingSound or FeelingSensation.
Yes..just sound.
There would have to be a something/someone to be actually hearing sound. Do the ears hear?
No
Only the smelling
What is it that is smelling exactly? Where does smell end and the knowing of smell begin? Is there a nose that smells?
No one is smelling.... theres just SmeellingSmell
There is no “THE” experience. There is only experience itself ie soundsmelltastethoughtcoloursensation.
Thank you Kay, blessings.

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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:32 am

Good morning Zazen,
What do you find?
Only black, void, emptiness, space, eternal black lol.
See how thought automatically adds more. How is it known that the colour black is a void, emptiness, space, eternal black? Does the blackness speak of these things or are they concepts? Isn’t it just AE of colour which thought labels as black?

We have looked at the idea of space earlier. Just as a reminder, let’s do a different exercise on space.

Have a look at the following picture. Thought says that the door is open and that there is space between the edge of the door that is seen and the wall behind the door. But is there?

Image

Now, go open your front door like it is in this picture and have a look. Is the open door actually taking up ‘space’? And is there ‘space’ between door and the wall behind the door? What is actual experience?
Is there anything that is witnessing the colour labelled ‘black’? Or ‘black’ just is?
Black just is
Look very carefully. Where does ‘seeing’ end and colour begin?
No limit or border or distinction to be found.
Yes…but notice how thought automatically makes that limitlessness like a measurement. It imagines it as beyond the Universe type thing! Is there any real distance between what is ‘seeing’ and what is seen? And does what is seen extend beyond past the seeing of what is right there?
Can a dividing line between ‘seeing’ and colour be found?
No
Exactly…so can anything be found that is aware OF colour since seeingcolour are one and the same ie knowingknown?

Or is there just seeingcolour? In other words is there a boundary between what is known ie colour and the knowing of it? Or is there simply knowingknown – ie no dividing line, no boundary?
No boundary, no line... just KnowingKnown... SeeingColor... Color that sees?...
How can colour see? Look at colour...is it an object that sees? Knowing knows itself (self-aware) it doesn't need what is 'seen' to tell it what it is.

Seeing and knowing are one and the same. Seeing of colour and seeing of seeing are one and the same = colour = knowingknown.
If that is all, and no INHERENT SEE-ER found . . . would anything that is suggested as the see-er be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?
Not sure about this one... I would say that if I go to thought, yes, then I would say something is seeing, the color is seeing? But if I dont go to thought, theres just black.
So why would you go to thought for confirmation? Have you not seen that thought knows nothing. Never believe ANYTHING thought says, without checking its claims against actual experience. And what is the actual experience when LOOKING?
Is there a difference between the ‘black’ when eyes are closed and ‘colour’ when eyes are open, or are they both simply the appearance of colour?
No diference, just colors, colors eye open, black with eyes closed.
And is black anything other than colour? Are there many different colourS or just colour which thought then divides and labels as pink, blue, black, yellow etc?
Is the ‘see-er’ actually separate from the seen, or is it all a singular experience ie see-erseen/seeingcolour?
One experience, one singular SeeingColor experience thats not diferent from HearingSound or FeelingSensation.
Yes…so what suggests that the see-er is something other than a concept/idea/thought?
Yes..just sound.
There would have to be a something/someone to be actually hearing sound. Do the ears hear?
No
Exactly…what is the AE of ears?

Only the smelling
What is it that is smelling exactly? Where does smell end and the knowing of smell begin? Is there a nose that smells?
No one is smelling.... theres just SmeellingSmell
There is just smell. And even that isn't quite correct. If you completely IGNORE the label 'smell'...what remains?

With love,
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Zazen01
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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby Zazen01 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:25 pm

Hi Kay! :)
See how thought automatically adds more. How is it known that the colour black is a void, emptiness, space, eternal black? Does the blackness speak of these things or are they concepts? Isn’t it just AE of colour which thought labels as black?
Yes, its a automatic reflex of adding meaning.... but yes I see your point, its just color labeled as black, thank you.
Have a look at the following picture. Thought says that the door is open and that there is space between the edge of the door that is seen and the wall behind the door. But is there?
Looking deeply, theres only a flat image, colors. Space would be a thought.
Now, go open your front door like it is in this picture and have a look. Is the open door actually taking up ‘space’?
Hard not to say its not taking space, because the sensation of space is 3d.... no?
And is there ‘space’ between door and the wall behind the door? What is actual experience?
AE would be colors. But the space part, its hard to explain if there isnt or not, like previous answer.
Yes…but notice how thought automatically makes that limitlessness like a measurement. It imagines it as beyond the Universe type thing! Is there any real distance between what is ‘seeing’ and what is seen?
No distance at all between seen and seeing, its the same 'thing'.
And does what is seen extend beyond past the seeing of what is right there?
no, its the same, seen and seeing, same.
Can a dividing line between ‘seeing’ and colour be found?
No
Exactly…so can anything be found that is aware OF colour since seeingcolour are one and the same ie knowingknown?
Nothing can be found, its one thing.
Or is there just seeingcolour? In other words is there a boundary between what is known ie colour and the knowing of it? Or is there simply knowingknown – ie no dividing line, no boundary?
No boundary, no line... just KnowingKnown... SeeingColor... Color that sees?...
How can colour see? Look at colour...is it an object that sees? Knowing knows itself (self-aware) it doesn't need what is 'seen' to tell it what it is.
It was just a way of explaining what cant be explained, how can SeeingColor be one thing, at the same time something is aware of color?...
Seeing and knowing are one and the same. Seeing of colour and seeing of seeing are one and the same = colour = knowingknown.
So, seeing = knowing = color, all 3 the same 'thing'? or can it be said that seeing, hearing, smelling, sensing, thinking, feeling are a virtue of knowing. Knowing knows itself as seeing, hearing, etc?
So why would you go to thought for confirmation? Have you not seen that thought knows nothing. Never believe ANYTHING thought says, without checking its claims against actual experience. And what is the actual experience when LOOKING?
I think I got what you mean, about the see-er being a thought. Without that thought,AE would just be color, sounds, sensations, smells, etc.
And is black anything other than colour? Are there many different colourS or just colour which thought then divides and labels as pink, blue, black, yellow etc?
Lol.... Ok, yes, looking at it like that.... theres just color, then tought labels each one with diferent label. So eyes closed, just color, eyes open, just color. Eyes closed or open, its the same, just color.
Yes…so what suggests that the see-er is something other than a concept/idea/thought?
Thought...
Yes..just sound.
There would have to be a something/someone to be actually hearing sound. Do the ears hear?
No
Exactly…what is the AE of ears?
Color, label/thought
Only the smelling
What is it that is smelling exactly? Where does smell end and the knowing of smell begin? Is there a nose that smells?
No one is smelling.... theres just SmeellingSmell
There is just smell. And even that isn't quite correct. If you completely IGNORE the label 'smell'...what remains?
Knowing....

Thank you Kay! Blessings to you.

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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:04 am

Hey Zazen,
Now, go open your front door like it is in this picture and have a look. Is the open door actually taking up ‘space’?
Hard not to say its not taking space, because the sensation of space is 3d.... no?
It seems like you aren't LOOKING as diligently as you were. I would like for you to do the following exercise and answer the questions for that exercise. Then I want you to come back to the door exercise and do it again and answer the questions.

Sit in a chair somewhere quiet and take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and start to notice just the ‘body’, the chair, floor, rugs, furniture and walls. Without thought, all there is, is colour which thought then labels as clothes, or body, chair, wall etc (we are only looking at colour for this exercise).

Now look carefully.
1. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’ be found?
2. Is there a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’?
3. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and colour labelled ‘furniturel’ be found? Is there ‘space’ between ‘floor/rug’ and the ‘furniture’ or is there just simply colour
3. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug and furniture’ and the colour labelled ‘wall’ be found? Is there ‘space’ between ‘floor/rug’, ‘furniture’ and the ‘wall’ or is there just simply colour?
What do you find?

Is there an actual dividing line between any of these “colourS” or are they just simply seamless colour which thought divides into ‘things’ and further divides in into many different colourS and labels them as pink, black, yellow, green etc?

Is there such a thing as “space” or “distance”?

Is there an actual body/you sitting in a chair, or all there is, is colour?

And is there ‘space’ between door and the wall behind the door? What is actual experience?
AE would be colors. But the space part, its hard to explain if there isnt or not, like previous answer.
If it is AE of colour…where is the space? Is there really a door and a wall, or is there just colour?

I gave you the following exercise already…but it is a good time to do it again. It is a good idea to go back and read what we have already done. We cover a lot in this exploration and don't retain it all. So go back and start rereading your thread and redo exercises you feel a desire to redo.

What I would like you to do, is to go outside do the exercise, instead of just looking at the picture provided.

Image

Notice that when you go by direct visual experience alone, the way the tree is distinguished from the sky is by colour only. The ‘border’ or the ‘dividing line’ between the tree and the sky is just a sudden change in colour.

Normally we believe that shadow implies depth. But shadow is just a darker shade of colour. When going with seeing only, there is nothing else in the image about shadow than the difference in colour from the surrounding areas.

And what about light? Light is the same as shadow. Just a change in colour, nothing else.

Look at the tree. There are some changes in colour labelled ‘darker’ or ‘lighter’, which thought implies as differences in depth and distance, but actually they are just some changes in colour.

Can depth actually be experienced?
Is there really a 3 dimension or only 2?

Look at the white colour labelled ‘clouds’. Are some actually closer to the tree, while others are further away from the tree?
Is the tree closer than the clouds?
Can ‘closer’ and ‘far’ be experienced at all?

Is there a foreground or a background?
Is there an experience of ‘tree’ apart from colour?

We normally believe that colour is coming from the independent object (tree).
But is there really an object hiding somewhere behind the colour, or an object which is ‘emitting’ the colour?
Is there the experience of a physical object (tree) behind the colour, or that is independent of colour?

Seeing and knowing are one and the same. Seeing of colour and seeing of seeing are one and the same = colour = knowingknown.
So, seeing = knowing = color, all 3 the same 'thing'? or can it be said that seeing, hearing, smelling, sensing, thinking, feeling are a virtue of knowing. Knowing knows itself as seeing, hearing, etc?
You are not LOOKING, Zazen

For the last several posts, we have been looking at the these ideas of separation ie seer/seeing, hearer/hearing. Have you found any division at all? Have you found a seer of the seeing? A hearer of the hearing? If not then how can Knowing know itself as these? You are aware of the story ABOUT seeing, hearing, smelling…but where are the actual divisions? Where can an entity be found that is seeing, hearing, smelling etc?

So why would you go to thought for confirmation? Have you not seen that thought knows nothing. Never believe ANYTHING thought says, without checking its claims against actual experience. And what is the actual experience when LOOKING?
I think I got what you mean, about the see-er being a thought. Without that thought,AE would just be color, sounds, sensations, smells, etc.
I don't want you to THINK you know what I mean...I want you to LOOK and see what is being pointed at.

Without thought, those divisions wouldn’t exist either. Thought divides Knowing/experience/THIS in to sound AND thought AND smell AND colour AND taste AND sensation. There is only soundthoughtsmellcolourtastesensation. NO division, no labels.

If you look at a table, and for the sake of this experiment, let’s say it is the colour brown. Now totally ignore the label ‘table’ and you are then left with the label ‘brown’. Totally ignore the label ‘brown’ and you are left with the label ‘colour’. Now ignore the label ‘colour’ and what are you left with, what remains...what is here and always IS?
Exactly…what is the AE of ears?
Color, label/thought
The AE of ears = thought. Though points to colour and labels it ‘ears’. Colour is known, are ears?
So ears being AE of thought….can they hear? Can colour hear? The idea of ears and what they are and do etc are known…but are ears actually known?

What is it that is smelling exactly? Where does smell end and the knowing of smell begin? Is there a nose that smells?
No one is smelling.... theres just SmeellingSmell
There is just smell. And even that isn't quite correct. If you completely IGNORE the label 'smell'...what remains?
Knowing....
Yes, exactly, So can a Knowing be found that is smelling?

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby Zazen01 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:12 pm

Hi Kay, good morning to you.
Sit in a chair somewhere quiet and take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and start to notice just the ‘body’, the chair, floor, rugs, furniture and walls. Without thought, all there is, is colour which thought then labels as clothes, or body, chair, wall etc (we are only looking at colour for this exercise).

Now look carefully.
1. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’ be found?
No.
2. Is there a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’?
No.
3. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and colour labelled ‘furniturel’ be found? Is there ‘space’ between ‘floor/rug’ and the ‘furniture’ or is there just simply colour
No space, only color. (I understood this space question better this time).
3. Can a dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and colour labelled ‘furniturel’ be found? Is there ‘space’ between ‘floor/rug’ and the ‘furniture’ or is there just simply colour
No space, just color.
Is there an actual dividing line between any of these “colourS” or are they just simply seamless colour which thought divides into ‘things’ and further divides in into many different colourS and labels them as pink, black, yellow, green etc?
I see this now... no line, border or dividing line, just color.
Is there such a thing as “space” or “distance”?
This is a good comparison, space can be the space of knowing, because theres no borders, just knowing. And no distance also. Distance is more clear to see what you mean. Space would be where everything 'appears'.
Is there an actual body/you sitting in a chair, or all there is, is colour?
Just color, thanks for this.
f it is AE of colour…where is the space?

Exactly.... thank you. No space, only color.
Is there really a door and a wall, or is there just colour?
Again, thank you. Yes, without going to thought, just color...
I gave you the following exercise already…but it is a good time to do it again. It is a good idea to go back and read what we have already done. We cover a lot in this exploration and don't retain it all. So go back and start rereading your thread and redo exercises you feel a desire to redo.
Actually Ive done this a bit.... was thinking in writing down the different exercises so I could have then available to do at other times. Ill re-read the exploration from the start, when the opportunity presents itself (this color body has to work to make money also lol). But yes, Ive thought about it. So much valuable information and your responses in blue too.

----
Notice that when you go by direct visual experience alone, the way the tree is distinguished from the sky is by colour only. The ‘border’ or the ‘dividing line’ between the tree and the sky is just a sudden change in colour.

Normally we believe that shadow implies depth. But shadow is just a darker shade of colour. When going with seeing only, there is nothing else in the image about shadow than the difference in colour from the surrounding areas.

And what about light? Light is the same as shadow. Just a change in colour, nothing else.

Look at the tree. There are some changes in colour labelled ‘darker’ or ‘lighter’, which thought implies as differences in depth and distance, but actually they are just some changes in colour.

Can depth actually be experienced?
Is there really a 3 dimension or only 2?
To be honest, doing this exercise (which I did not only with a tree, but the surroundings while driving around in the car) is easier looking at the tree image on the computer. Its easier to see it as a flat image. Going 'live', walking around, its not that easy to disconnect the conditioning of the mind to say theres just a flat 2d image of color. So if I dont go to thought, just standing looking a tree, I can say its a 2D, only color. But then the tree moves with the wind, and now its more difficulty to say its 2D. Same if Im driving the car. I know AE is only color, but to say its 2D, I would be lying if I said that was the case.
Look at the white colour labelled ‘clouds’. Are some actually closer to the tree, while others are further away from the tree?
Is the tree closer than the clouds?
No.
Can ‘closer’ and ‘far’ be experienced at all?
No, Ive answered this one before and I can see that is the case.
Is there a foreground or a background?
No
Is there an experience of ‘tree’ apart from colour?
No
We normally believe that colour is coming from the independent object (tree).
But is there really an object hiding somewhere behind the colour, or an object which is ‘emitting’ the colour?
Is there the experience of a physical object (tree) behind the colour, or that is independent of colour?
Without going to thought, no. Only color. Thats the only AE.
For the last several posts, we have been looking at the these ideas of separation ie seer/seeing, hearer/hearing. Have you found any division at all?
No division.
Have you found a seer of the seeing? A hearer of the hearing?
No, this is clear.
If not then how can Knowing know itself as these?
It was probably thought trying to explain this. Also, sometimes the language barrier gets in the way.
You are aware of the story ABOUT seeing, hearing, smelling…but where are the actual divisions?
No divisions, no limits ot boundary's. This has been seen clearly.
Where can an entity be found that is seeing, hearing, smelling etc?
No entity to be found.
I don't want you to THINK you know what I mean...I want you to LOOK and see what is being pointed at.

Without thought, those divisions wouldn’t exist either. Thought divides Knowing/experience/THIS in to sound AND thought AND smell AND colour AND taste AND sensation. There is only soundthoughtsmellcolourtastesensation. NO division, no labels.
Ok
If you look at a table, and for the sake of this experiment, let’s say it is the colour brown. Now totally ignore the label ‘table’ and you are then left with the label ‘brown’. Totally ignore the label ‘brown’ and you are left with the label ‘colour’. Now ignore the label ‘colour’ and what are you left with, what remains...what is here and always IS?
Knowing
The AE of ears = thought. Though points to colour and labels it ‘ears’. Colour is known, are ears?
Yes, I answered this one from the perspective if I was looking at the ears, so I would see color. But without looking, theres just thought.
So ears being AE of thought….can they hear? Can colour hear?
No and no lol. Theres no one or thing that hears, theres hearing.
The idea of ears and what they are and do etc are known…but are ears actually known?
No, its just a label.
Yes, exactly, So can a Knowing be found that is smelling?
No, no knowing cant be found. It just IS.

Best regards Kay, _/\_

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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby Zazen01 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:21 pm

Hi Kay,

This is a updated post, it suddenly 'dawned' on me, about the depth issue, or space, and the 3D. Before I answered that I would be lying if I said that everything is 2D, because the sensation of walking around would be 3D.

But it suddenly made sense to me. For there to be a 3D, you need dimensions in 3 directions. The depth dimension, in order for it to be there, there would need to be a space between colors (like you mentioned in your response), and the AE is really one color ending another starting. So theres not really space, its just color.

Admittedly, the walking part, still doesnt feel as 2D. But just wanted to ad this latest post/reflection.

Z

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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:18 am

Hey Z....the flow of the day went in a different direction today...and I won't have the time to respond to your post until tomorrow. Loved quickly scanning the last bit you wrote about 2D and 3D! Nice!

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:24 am

Hey Zazen,
Is there an actual dividing line between any of these “colourS” or are they just simply seamless colour which thought divides into ‘things’ and further divides in into many different colourS and labels them as pink, black, yellow, green etc?
I see this now... no line, border or dividing line, just color.
Terrific :)
Is there such a thing as “space” or “distance”?
This is a good comparison, space can be the space of knowing, because theres no borders, just knowing. And no distance also. Distance is more clear to see what you mean.
Aah…where is this space exactly? You said you see now that there is no line, border or dividing line…just colour. If there is no distance, then how can there be space? Is not the distance between 2 trees, for example, not also considered as space between the trees…so what is the difference between space and distance?
Space would be where everything 'appears'.
There is an assumption here that every’ thing’ is contained IN something, like doughnuts are contained in a box, or there is a someone that is contained in a body, therefore things are contained in space.

Let's measure space!

When you close your eyes, all there is, is black’ness’. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - it really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are just noticing ‘blackness’.

Now LOOK very carefully. Where does ‘seeing’ end and colour begin? If you LOOK carefully you will see that there is no limit, boundary or border and no distinctions to be found. There is simply 2D blackness.

Now notice how thought automatically makes that limitlessness/borderlessness like a measurement…something other than 2D. It imagines it as beyond the Universe, a measurement beyond measuring because of its vastness. It also labels blackness as emptiness and void.

Can this emptiness, space or void actually be found in the blackness itself, or is it simply 2D blackness that is right there? Is there any real distance between what is ‘seeing’ and what is seen? And does what is seen extend beyond past the seeing of what is right there? Is there a distance of any kind between the 'seeing' and seen? Can space or distance actually be known, or is it a concept?

Can you see the correlation between what is seemingly seen behind closed eyes and the so called Universe itself? How is one any different to the other? And can space be found between either? In other words, when looking at what is seen with eyes closed…there is no distance or space…right? So, is there really distance or space between the eyes being open and space that is considered to be full of stars, planets etc?
Is there an actual body/you sitting in a chair, or all there is, is colour?
Just color, thanks for this.
Yes, just colour which thought overlays with the label ‘body’ and further overlays with stories about colour being a body, what it is, does, made of etc.
If it is AE of colour…where is the space?
Exactly.... thank you. No space, only color.
Lovely, nice LOOKING
Is there really a door and a wall, or is there just colour?
Again, thank you. Yes, without going to thought, just color...
YES!
If you look at a table, and for the sake of this experiment, let’s say it is the colour brown. Now totally ignore the label ‘table’ and you are then left with the label ‘brown’. Totally ignore the label ‘brown’ and you are left with the label ‘colour’. Now ignore the label ‘colour’ and what are you left with, what remains...what is here and always IS?
Knowing
Yes…quite profound when you just meditate on looking at some ‘thing’ that is labelled as a table, but when you really LOOK…all there is, is Knowing itself!
So ears being AE of thought….can they hear? Can colour hear?
No and no lol. Theres no one or thing that hears, theres hearing.
There is no hearing…there is simply AE as sound
This is a updated post, it suddenly 'dawned' on me, about the depth issue, or space, and the 3D. Before I answered that I would be lying if I said that everything is 2D, because the sensation of walking around would be 3D.

But it suddenly made sense to me. For there to be a 3D, you need dimensions in 3 directions. The depth dimension, in order for it to be there, there would need to be a space between colors (like you mentioned in your response), and the AE is really one color ending another starting. So theres not really space, its just color.
YES! Lovely, Zazen. Some things can be hard to see clearly…but if you look carefully you will see what is being point ate. Nicely done! :)

Here's an example of a flat image that looks like it has depth. And it even changes from protruding outward to being hollow, depending on how thought interprets the scene.

Image
Admittedly, the walking part, still doesnt feel as 2D. But just wanted to ad this latest post/reflection.
And to what does it matter exactly…that it “still doesn’t feel or seem like 2D”?
What would feeling 2D actually feel like? What does 3D actually feel like?


Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby Zazen01 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:46 pm

Hi Kay,
I just did a scan of all the post and your replys, exercises, and I saved them to a file to have then handy to review anytime. So Ill get to answer your latest post these days, thank you :)
Z

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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby Zazen01 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:33 pm

Hi Kay, good afternoon :)
Aah…where is this space exactly? You said you see now that there is no line, border or dividing line…just colour. If there is no distance, then how can there be space? Is not the distance between 2 trees, for example, not also considered as space between the trees…so what is the difference between space and distance?
This was probably me not explaining exactly what I meant. I was just trying to convey that space or distance can be felt as space because theres no borders... but this space is a sensation, AE is colors.
When you close your eyes, all there is, is black’ness’. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - it really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are just noticing ‘blackness’.

Now LOOK very carefully. Where does ‘seeing’ end and colour begin? If you LOOK carefully you will see that there is no limit, boundary or border and no distinctions to be found. There is simply 2D blackness.
Yes, I see this.
Can this emptiness, space or void actually be found in the blackness itself, or is it simply 2D blackness that is right there?
Just 2D black, the rest is labels by thought...
Is there any real distance between what is ‘seeing’ and what is seen?
No distance at all.
And does what is seen extend beyond past the seeing of what is right there?
No, its just the same thing.
Is there a distance of any kind between the 'seeing' and seen?
No
Can space or distance actually be known, or is it a concept?
Its a concept, a thought.
Can you see the correlation between what is seemingly seen behind closed eyes and the so called Universe itself? How is one any different to the other? And can space be found between either? In other words, when looking at what is seen with eyes closed…there is no distance or space…right? So, is there really distance or space between the eyes being open and space that is considered to be full of stars, planets etc?
No space, thats just a thought. No distance. Its the same, seen and seeing. I see this.
Yes…quite profound when you just meditate on looking at some ‘thing’ that is labelled as a table, but when you really LOOK…all there is, is Knowing itself!
Quite profound K, yes, thank you!
Here's an example of a flat image that looks like it has depth. And it even changes from protruding outward to being hollow, depending on how thought interprets the scene.
So thought makes it as to have depth, but really looking its a flat image. Ive beein going around when Im on streets and doing this exercise, looking at the depth. I always find just color.
And to what does it matter exactly…that it “still doesn’t feel or seem like 2D”?
To thought!
What would feeling 2D actually feel like? What does 3D actually feel like?
3D is part of this ilusion where theres a body 'moving' around the world. But when looking from 2D, knowing becomes more clear. Calling it a 2D flat screen still seems far fetched at the moment, but what does it matter really? What difference does it make to see 3D or 2D?... I see that just as a challenge, because of years of conditioning, the automatic is to look things as 3D... But is that because theres identidication as the 'body'?... is my answer just thought making a big argument ouf of nothing? Lol...

Thanks Kay, god bless, blessings.
P.S. What is God? :) I know AE points to thought.

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Re: Not sure if I have crossed the gate

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:59 am

Hi Zazen,

Always a pleasure to read your posts.
Here's an example of a flat image that looks like it has depth. And it even changes from protruding outward to being hollow, depending on how thought interprets the scene.
So thought makes it as to have depth, but really looking its a flat image. Ive beein going around when Im on streets and doing this exercise, looking at the depth. I always find just color.
Haha…maybe the flat earth believers might be onto something! ;) Just kidding! Good to hear that you are going around and looking to see it for yourself.
And to what does it matter exactly…that it “still doesn’t feel or seem like 2D”?
To thought!
And does it matter to thought? Does thought know anything? It is only an appearing thought that suggest “it matters to a someone”. What can a thought do? Does a thought have volition? Can it manipulate other thoughts or think new thoughts? Can a thought feel, know, taste, smell, see anything?

So to what exactly does it matter if thought appears saying “still doesn’t feel or seem like 2D”?

What would feeling 2D actually feel like? What does 3D actually feel like?
3D is part of this ilusion where theres a body 'moving' around the world. But when looking from 2D, knowing becomes more clear. Calling it a 2D flat screen still seems far fetched at the moment, but what does it matter really? What difference does it make to see 3D or 2D?... I see that just as a challenge, because of years of conditioning, the automatic is to look things as 3D... But is that because theres identidication as the 'body'?...
What is it exactly that is identifying with a body? When you LOOK can you find a body as actual experience?

The world as it is seen from the idea of being a person is quite miraculous. How it comes together and why….no body knows and when looking…to whom or what does it matter? But when you look at it all and see the depth and intelligence in it all…it is beautiful and definitely miraculous.
is my answer just thought making a big argument ouf of nothing? Lol...
You are not seeing thought for what it is. Start to see thoughts as what they are, not as what they say they are.

A thought, in and of itself is like a container.
The content of a thought is what a thought is ABOUT
When a thought is seen only as a container, and the content of a thought (what it’s about) is being ignored - this is what is called actual experience of a thought, or the face value of thought.
So, we can say, that in actual experience, the arising of a thought (the container) is real, but what it’s ABOUT, the content, is not. The thought (as container) is there in reality, but the content of a thought is fiction. Do you see the difference?
Thanks Kay, god bless, blessings.
P.S. What is God? :) I know AE points to thought.
Hahahaha! There are many names for THIS/experience/knowing/awareness/God/Spirit/Universe/Consciousness/colourtastesmellthoughtsoundsensation. It doesn't matter what it is called, because it all simply THIS appearing exactly as it is...Itself! :)

With love,
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/


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