The Pendulum

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Andreas18
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Andreas18 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:32 pm

I think something in me just broke. I'm not sure how to respond... I'm so confused. Happily confused.

It's so crazy, this whole time the truth was right under my nose. I've heard about this dream state for years but still I was completely oblivious to what was going on. It's rather embarrassing to have gone this long and not to even have noticed something so obvious.

I'm not sure what to make of this, it's so profoundly simple. It seems the mind is trying to understand, but it can't. It's as if, there is just nothing to say about it, I'm not sure it's even possible to really put it into words, it just is. But not even that feels right. It's beyond anything I could possibly think.

It's just, there's nothing to do, nothing to say. As they say in zen, nothing comes next, this is it. And my mind is completely puzzled by this, it has no idea what to make of it. I feel like I'm starting to lose my grip on reality... Or rather, unreality?
I'm so confused, I have no idea what to even say, or think anymore. I've totally lost it. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore.

But yea, I see what you mean. There is no after awakening. But my mind can't understand it. I could try to put words to it but it just, that's not it. But yea, what your saying is true. Well, I'm not sure about this next one to be honest, but it seems, what they say is true, what we truly are is eternal, unborn, undying, uncreated. Always remaining the same. The changeless, knowing all change. But I all too easily forget this, and before I know it I'm back in the dream state, it's a bit scary really, knowing that I don't really have control over this. And so I'm stumped, I don't know what to do... I guess you could say I'm scared of having to go back into suffering, and my mind is racing to try to find an answer to how I stay here, how not to lose it.

In my mind though there is some resistance to this, because I feel as if it all too easily just becomes another identity. It's sort of like "ah, that's what I am", but I know it's not an identity, and that's what really bothers me. It's as if the ego is trying hijack this presence and it's trying to turn it into another self again. An ego that thinks it's god. An enlightened ego as my teacher once said.

This whole message is a jumbled mess, this really caught me off guard, but as to this question of suffering. I can see that believing in and focusing on thoughts and images can cause me to suffer, and what you say about these mind movies we have really spoke to me. But a lot of the time, my suffering seems purely emotional. It's as if it's triggered by a thought or image or memory, or i wake up in a bad mood, or it happens for no apparent reason, and I then begin to sink back into suffering, and then I'm back in the darkness. And so to me it's feels as if this pain and suffering is on a very emotional level. And I can't understand why I'm suffering so much. Though, I can remember that I have strong negative reactions to pretty much most things.

I wake up, and so I get pissed off because my body is demanding drugs, coffee, food, it needs to go to the bathroom, it needs this and that, it wants this, doesn't want that. It obsessively thinks and daydreams. It gets endlessly pissed off at inanimate objects, feeling like a slave to my own possessions. Just ceaseless demands and requirements, never getting a break from the pain. I just hate having to be alive, being forced to live even though I don't want to. So much inner conflict. And these thoughts, images and so on, or rather, reactions, happen so quickly I can't stop it from happening. I have no control over it. I can't even do the things i want anymore, i can't even finish a book, or meditate when i want, everything is just happening spontaneously and I just can't control it. I'm just so overwhelmed by it all. I sort of just have no clue as to what the hell is happening anymore, and whenever i try to do something, like mindfulness, I tend to fail.

I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore, or why I'm writing all this... But if i go back to the question of suffering... I don't know, it's so physical and emotional, and I can't seem to understand why it's happening... I just become, totally caught up in it, and whenever i try to stop thinking negative thoughts, I can't. I fail endlessly at trying to control the mind, it's seems like it's impossible to stop it from happening. I guess this is when i should ask the question you recommended in your video. "Do I really have to think about this right now", "and what is here now". I can see how that could help lift me out of my depression. But is all suffering caused by thought? It seems a lot of my suffering is caused not only by thinking but because of my emotional reactivity. I feel so neurotic, as if life is constantly pushing my buttons and getting on my nerves. I just get so endlessly pissed off sometimes, and I can't avoid it...

Though I seem to be lost in time here... Reading what I just wrote, it seems I tend to think like this a lot. Thoughts and images about suffering. I feel so frustrated because I can never quite get to the bottom of it. I never manage to get to the roots of my suffering... God I'm completely lost right now. I apologize for writing so much, I feel like I'm just rambling on right now...

As to the question of ego... I have no idea actually... From what i understand though, ego is simply an activity of the mind. It's just thoughts and images, and so... I don't know, we mistake these thoughts and images to be what we are? And so ego is just an illusion? It was never real in the first place? I'm sorry, I'm so mind blown right now I have no idea what is true or not anymore. It's like everything I've learned is crumbling through my fingers, I have no idea what to think right now. It's like words are losing their meaning and nothing makes sense anymore...

I apologize for the shoddy response, this whole message is just a huge mess... i just don't know what the hell to think anymore... I think i need to have a cigarette and chill out for a bit.

Lastly, no, i was totally not ready for any of this, at all. But god damn do I love this stuff, it sucks so much but I'm just so totally in love with truth these days... God I have no idea what's going on anymore...

Thank you once again Ilona. You're really doing a great job at questioning my answers. It feels as if the ego is just, disintegrating. Seeing I'm this mind blown and totally confused... Well I don't know, I'm guessing it's a good thing.

But ok, I'll end it here. Thank you so much Ilona. I'm gonna go have a cigarette, and watch that video again... Last time I forgot about the cigarette though and it burned out, so maybe I should smoke the cigarette first... And then the video...

Goddamn what have I gotten myself into...

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Andreas18
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Andreas18 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:22 pm

Ok, I watched the video again. I think i'm beginning to understand. For one I realized that my mind had become fixated on an ultimate view of reality, the thought was; "There is nothing that isn't reality, the illusion exists, and that too is reality."
I wasn't aware that I was clinging to a non dual perspective, whilst sacrificing my own sanity due to this believe. It's beginning to dawn on me that what I have been doing isn't working, and that I have to actually sort of, think in a more useful way that isn't so limited. Understanding that there is illusion, and then there is reality. That which is here now. Separating those two and seeing what isn't real in comparison to what is here now, It's beginning to dawn on me how profound this is.

Ilona, I can't thank you enough. After so many years, I have finally heard what I needed to know. I was just not able to discern the truth for myself, because of this fixated point of view that wouldn't allow me to see past my illusions. I'm reminded of what the Buddha taught, and that is to be discerning. Thinking skillfully, and right understanding. I can see how mindfulness can also be an essential aspect to being awake to the mind movies as they occur. Which is difficult, but being able to distinguish the difference between mind and reality. I can't even imagine the profundity of what is to come from this, because this is going to lead to the end of my world.

Thank you so much Ilona, I think I finally found some sanity in this crazy life I've been living.

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Andreas18
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Andreas18 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:24 pm

Ok, so I watched it again.

There is something that has been bugging me for years and years now, and that is that my mind compulsively daydreams. It is constantly creating these mind movies, and I get completely lost in the stories. I can't prevent it from happening. Usually these stories seem to please the ego, and aggrandize it. Or it is very unpleasant, which also seems to strengthen the ego. This bothers me endlessly, because I feel like I'm that character in the story, and I cannot control the stories that the mind creates. I feel sort of like a dog being dragged on a leash. The mind takes me wherever it wants to go. The monkey mind?

You mentioned that we can use these mind movies as a stepping stone? I'm a little confused as to what exactly you mean by that. How can I use the mind movies as a stepping stone to move through and out of this confusion as you say?

I guess I'm looking for some technique or secret method or something, i don't know... maybe that's not it... Could you please clarify how I can use these mind movies as a stepping stone?

Sincerely
Andreas

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Ilona
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:03 pm

Mind movies can be used to dig further. See, once a strong story is here, it’s inviting to look at it. And yes, there is kind of magnetic pull into them. But that is not bad. That is great! You can take a look at the story and see what is happening, how is it creating itself. So that the energy, that keeps building up can come to rest.

In simple way, stories that are here are ready to self liberate, if met with respect and curiosity.

So you don’t even need to look for them, they show up.
Whatever story is running. Be it about good person, bad person, it does not matter, if a story is believed, it has got you.

One thing to consider is that no story is a true story. No belief is truth.



I see your process is going strong and that’s great. You are on the right track. Keep trusting the process.
Write as much as you like.

What are you noticing?
Is there a character without a story about him?
Is there a story without a character?

Where is the character now?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Andreas18
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Andreas18 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:36 pm

It's really quite strange, what you've described suddenly just started happening. I have no idea how, or why, but it seems there has been some shift in perception. I can see how the story is not me, nor could it ever be. I'm not quite sure how it's even happening. It's just happens by itself.

The mind is vast, as I once heard someone say.

But as to the questions you've asked. The character and the story go together. I can't imagine a story without a character.
If there is no story, there isn't really any character. There would be no point.

The character was always in the mind. It's simply composed of thoughts. And very often it seems we feel what we think, and we think what we feel. It seems to me that these stories we silently tell ourselves are so deeply ingrained in us, deeply rooted habits, patterns, grooves in the mind that repeat themselves over and over... And we consistently create new stories about the present, and we imagine a story of the future. Endless story telling.

So that's the thing, all of it are just stories in mind. It's not actually true, nor can it ever be the truth. Relatively speaking.

That last question makes me laugh. At least in this moment

Thanks Ilona. I see now also that there is no after awakening, though it's not discernible to the mind.
I stumbled upon a rather useful question; What's controlling what?
It seems to me that control is in some way simply resistance to what is... Not allowing everything to be as it is. Asking this question allows me to simply flow and let go.

Thought is thought. Feeling is feeling. Sensing is sensing. Yet funnily enough, that which knows it all cannot be found. One can never quite put one's finger on it, no matter how much one looks, or where. Nothing is separate from it.

I wanted to find myself, but it doesn't exist! Now what am I to do?! There's nowhere left to go!

Dammit Ilona! Buddha! What have you done!!!
: )

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Andreas18
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Andreas18 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:59 pm

In truth there is so much that's happened I don't think it's possible to even write it all down. But I guess it's really beside the point. There's one thing on my mind... Is there something I must remember?

As you said, these stories have a magnetic pull to them. So it's simply these thoughts, images, stories, combined with emotion and sensation, that simply obscures... This?

But how does one remember this?

I guess asking the question is in some way asking, how can I hold onto this? How can I prolong this experience?
There is a fear of losing something the mind would like to refer to as "it". Enlightenment, reality, god. So many words and definitions. Which sort of gets in the way of direct experience.

If everything is enlightenment, how can one ever hold onto it? I would only be holding onto a perception of reality, and before I know it I would be back in confusion and... All of a sudden there is a self again. Holding onto a belief that there is a self that has become enlightened. But that's a misperception. There is no self to become enlightened.

I don't know if it's the cannabis or what... I sort of relapsed today, and I tend to end up it very satori like experiences.
Please do point out anything... Obscured, if you will.

My gratitude and appreciation is in this moment infinite.
It's not often I enjoy life as it is. And if it wasn't for our meeting, I may have continued on in my old grooves without even knowing it.

I can't thank you enough, I am infinitely grateful.

Now let's see what happens when the cannabis stops working. I wonder what will happen next...
I guess the only way to really experience what comes next is to be here now. This is it.

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Andreas18
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Andreas18 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:31 pm

There's always this incessant wanting for something though. The mind is always seeking some stimulation. It seems to be quite restless. I'm guessing this is what the Buddha referred to as the monkey mind.

I'm guessing this is where the eightfold path comes into the picture.
All the preliminary steps I have been working with quite a bit these past couple of months, though there is great difficulty in staying true to the path. Especially the step of concentration, and the step of mindfulness.

The mind becomes so easily bored. It is always craving more. Yet I know from direct experience there is nothing quite like the inexplicable bliss of desirelessness. Even saying that isn't even close to the actual reality though.
'
I'm guessing there is a very physical and real down to earth aspect to all of this. And this sort of... Manifestation of the truth, can take time. There seems to be a lot of process.

And so I guess the best thing to do is to stay mindful. And practice when you can.

The thing is though, I have ADHD. Which makes it quite tricky... Because the mind knows all these different meditation methods, and moves from to the other constantly. Attention never staying in the same place for long.
In addition to this, the mind loves to contemplate, and it loves to think about things and inquire into the nature of reality. So my practice is very messy, and I all to easily lose myself. Or rather, I lose mindfulness. I fall asleep. Or I get lost...

This is a really crazy process I seem to be going through.

Maybe I should start going to my local meditation center. Take refuge in the three jewels as they say.

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Ilona
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Ilona » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:53 pm

:) sweet!

What happens when boredom comes to visit? Is it ok to feel bored? Where does this energy of boredom feel in the body? What does it really want?

Mind what’s stimulation and finds it in mind movies and entertainment. But what happens if you allow that feeling of boredom to be here? Isn’t it interesting to explore it?

Meet boredom and restlenses. See them as old friends. They are here to show you something. What is that?

Write what you learn.

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Andreas18
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Andreas18 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:01 pm

I was actually hoping to speak more about this in detail.

Would you mind if I made a new post? The title sort of bothers me seeing where I am right now.

Thanks again for your guidance
Andreas Moerk

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Ilona
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Re: I am here, if anyone needs me. Just a guide.

Postby Ilona » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:14 pm

I can change the title for you here, no worries. What would you like to change it to?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Andreas18
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The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:29 pm

I would really like to talk about the pendulum. Going from being awake to going back to the dream state over and over again.
I don't know, Maybe just, "The Pendulum", is fine.

I sat just now and decided to sit with my restlessness. It's strange how it sort of, dissipated. But it returns all too easily, and I get caught up in doing drugs or some other activity. I want to go from realizing to being.

I watched a video with Adyashanti and he the spoke of the eroding away of self. This is what i feel has been happening a lot lately. The self is sort of, holding on yet eroding away simultaneously.

Also, I was hoping to talk about illness and drugs when it comes awakening. And I was hoping to find some inspiration I guess to get off them. Reality, understanding and being at one with it, has been my life's obsession. Yet I behave in ways that are not very spiritually conducive, I have many ailments and bad habits, and I'm wondering a bit about how drugs and bad habits stop one from fully maturing.

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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:24 pm

Yes, when you put attention on a sensation and allow it to be as it is, it transforms. It gets space to unfold and go to rest. Noticing restlessness allows it to rest. Experiment with this more.

Also look at it this way- rather than restlessness be seen as a symptom that needs to be fixed so it goes away, see it as a solution, for something deeper. It’s here doing it’s work, solving a deeper issue. What activity needs restlessness? What does not want to be seen? What is restlessness protecting?

The self is holding on, Hm.. is that so?
There are patterns, conditioning, programs that are running. They are unconscious, until they are met and seen, discovered. So this sellfing, it comes up to be noticed. No need to fight it, it’s here, because it wants to be seen and allowed. Everything is included.

Can you notice, that there is nothing holding on? Reality is free flowing. There is freedom to experience everything as it is.
There is no self at all, that would be separate from the whole holding on a little piece of its own life. Yet some behaviours show up and it APEARS that there is something there, resisting what is, holding on to ideas. Examine this.

You are aware right now. And you can see patterns.
Are patterns sticking to you?

Are you owning habits?

Would it be ok, to let life do what it does, including all addictions and habits? Or is there a drive to fight against that?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:22 pm

The restlessness seems unnecessary. It's doesn't seem to be serving any purpose. If anything it forced me to meditate. For some reason it just disappeared for some time. The body always wants to get up and do something else though, anything but meditation.

I can see the inclusion happens by itself, but it seem it takes a certain level of awareness and possibly the right attitude towards what is happening?

What is this resistance then? That everyone always talks of, resistance to what is? I've been doing what Adyashanti teaches and that is to allow everything to be as it is, yet there always seems to be some, struggle.

It's more like my patterns simply repeat themselves, and it seems as if my habits are owning me. I feel as if I have little control over it.

I think it would be alright to be honest. But not the way it's been going lately. I do want to quit, and my family, society and everyone always tells me how terrible this cannabis thing is and how important it is I get off the drug. I'm on well-fair, yet cannabis is my medicinal go to drug, so it's ruined my economy, and people always have something against it. I've always identified as and been with the delinquents of my generation. We've been outcast, and unless you get off the drugs you're not allowed back into normal society... And the thing is, it's not all that healthy, it makes us indolent, and it's never quite enough. Especially when it's being used medicinally, not simply for sake of intoxication. It's a problem of there being the wrong type of Cannabis in Norway, seeing it's strong as all hell, and there is zero CBD available, and it being illegal of course.
I use it for PTSD, yet the government won't give me back my drivers license until I've documented being off it for 6 months, and then I have to keep documenting my sobriety afterwards. Nor will they subscribe me it as medicine, even though it's the only thing that helps me get back on my feet. It's the one medicine that fixes most of my ailments but I don't have access to it. Which makes it much more expensive. Which in turn is my current dilemma.

Not only this but I have a massive amount of debt, I'm sick most of the time because I don't have access to CBD, I have no job, nothing to do, and I'm skraping along... Lately I've been drinking more alcohol, which really has to stop, my family has a history of alcoholism. And also, I do not enjoy being drunk at all. I have only been doing it because of the overwhelming stress of my life, and to get away from it.

I wish I could enjoy using cannabis legally and medically, without intoxication. That's really all I want. It's just the life circumstances make it so damn difficult, and illegal pharmacists are in the business of getting people high. Not healthy. So I don't really get the right cannabis. It's like going to a pharmacy, and there are 1,000 variations of the same medicine, and you need a specific one, but they just give you something random. So honestly, yes, I would love to get off it as well, but I just can't seem to manage. Going to rehab was part of what contributed to my PTSD... So I'm sort of stuck.

I'm sorry for putting this massive load on you. But ultimately, if i were to manage to do exactly as I wished. I would quit the drugs for good, give everything away, and become a monk. At Plum Village. That's what I really want to do. But circumstances won't allow it as things are now.

Doing drugs is going against the 5 precepts of the noble 8 fold path., and it's a precept for good reason I find. I would love to free myself from this addicition. But what we are taught to do here in Norway, is, "resist". And it never works. I really want to find some way out.

Sorry for spilling my heart like that, life circumstances have become unbearable lately, and I've been struggling to get by. It's really quite beside the point.

But yea, doesn't drugs simply dull ones senses? Can one stay awake without having to quit the drugs as a preliminary step? This is what I've been asking myself for years. But even off the drugs I'm not always awake. So I don't quite understand.

Isn't getting off the drugs a must in order to achieve, what the Buddha called, arahantship?

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:32 pm

To give a proper answer.

What I'm really interested in, is the final stages of enlightenment. A real spiritual maturing and awakening to what is real.
Waking up from all the illusion and dreaming.
Liberation not only from suffering, but from my desires, my will, especially my lust, greed, anger and all the rest. In particular, liberation from addiction would be a godsend. I'm stuck also on Benzodiazapenes, which doesn't make things easier in the coming future. The thing is.

I made a vow to become a Bodhisattva, I can't go around doing drugs forever. I can't go around chasing girls forever. I have to grow up out of this. I just don't know how.

I looked up the traits of a Sakadagamin, for the past months now this has spoken true to me, whether I be relatively unconsciousness or not. Though the past couple weeks have been rough.
But it seems something in me has awoken, and consistently go back and forth, having this awareness and stillness in the background, and sometimes the foreground. Sometimes I become aware again. Aware that I am aware.

I'm not entirely sure, but as they say on Wikipedia, a Sakadagamin is a partially enlightenment individual. A lay person in my case, with a really crappy history that haunts me. Though again, I'm not sure if that's true. I know it's only sort of, a measuring stick.

Thinking about it, I love being off the drugs. I prefer my normal state of consciousness when I''m not dreaming much more than any drug. I love the truth more than anything else, but I can never seem the find the final answer to what ails me.

If only I were healthy I would do everything in my power to help others.

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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:47 pm

There's a particular thing that gets to me, and that is my name. It doesn't help with the identification thing, but it speaks so true to my life.

My full name is Ole-Andreas Borch Mørk

Translated and defined I made it out to be something like, "Descendant of warriors, wandering the woods of darkness".
I feel my entire families history is ingrained into me. The potential for all the good, and all the bad. And I ended up with both the best and worst at the same time. I want to wake up from this reality, and be something, better than I am now. I want to change and live a more productive and healthy life. To be a working class citizen.

I wanted many times to change my name, to get me out of this story... But it does suit me well... Unfortunately. And thus it becomes a story. A character. And my life unfolds along the path of my name.

Luckily I get to see a healer the 31st this month. Susanne Marie. Maybe it'll help. I got faith. Real faith.

But as for take, craving for example, do I simply sit with it? It seems to take me over so quickly I can't escape my restlessness. Maybe I should go to a meditation senter... I mean, drug addiction is a whole other thing, I can't imagine how I could get off Benzos and Cannabis without going on a retreat maybe. Maybe...


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