Mopping up 123

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Amo
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri May 31, 2019 1:53 am

Re: Mopping up 123

Postby Amo » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:08 pm

Hi Kay,

Sorry it took again a while to sit with the questions. Quite a few! Also there's still busy times at work. But it's fine.
And how is this obvious? Can you recall when exactly it was that the realisation happened and how it felt?
It happened quite a while back. It was a feeling of relief. No big mind boggling experience rather a realisation, a lifting of weight kind of feeling. Since then it feels obvious that there isn't a separate self.
That is like a new intellectual understanding about something - about what's been noticed about AE...that isn't change, that is simply knowledge. So what has changed?
In that sense nothing has actually changed. It's still experience of one kind or another.
So is the seeking to find still happening...is it the same seeking that drove you to look for answers, that drove you to see through the separate self?
In that sense no, there's no seeking of that sort now.
And how do sensations sense “wanting and rejecting” exactly?
Sensations can't sense wanting and rejecting. Sensation only feel. The wanting and rejection is in thinking. E.g. sensations of tension occur which thinking interprets as wanting or not wanting.
Do the sensations themselves suggest in any way that they are wanting and/or rejecting?
No they don't. Even in the case of a strong sensing of pain it's rather an instinctive move away.
Do the sensations themselves suggest in any way they know anything about wanting or rejecting?
No, they don't suggest anything like this.
How exactly do thoughts know about “wanting and rejecting”?
Thoughts pick up on pleasure and displeasure which is experienced with the senses. Thought stories explain wanting or rejecting, they explain why something is good or pleasurable or not.
What are thoughts exactly?
Thoughts come and go like sense impressions. They happen just so. They may take content of commenting what's happening. Or they may take on stories.
And what is it exactly that is reacting?
It's not that anything particular is reacting. It's just another experience which is happening now. A thought story may link them to something which appears coherent but in AE it isn't.
How is the movement controlled?
It happens rather randomly.
Does a thought control it?
No, the hand turning without command. A thought can come up thinking turn but the hand can still not turn. Likewise it turns without a thought command.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No, there's no controller.
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
It's not possible. There is no actual decision. It's more a random flow of playful movements.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No there isn't any which is choosing.

Warmly,
Amo

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forgetmenot
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Location: Australia
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Re: Mopping up 123

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:12 pm

Hello Amo,

I will no longer be able to continue with this guiding. I am, as I expressed before, discontinuing guiding. I will leave you with a couple of ideas to ponder. If you wish to continue to be guided, I would suggest that you create a new thread on the forum, introduce yourself again and wait for another guide.
And how is this obvious? Can you recall when exactly it was that the realisation happened and how it felt?
It happened quite a while back. It was a feeling of relief. No big mind boggling experience rather a realisation, a lifting of weight kind of feeling. Since then it feels obvious that there isn't a separate self.
Yes, when we look it is obvious that there is no separate self as we think it to be. So what is it the is feeling, thinking, seeing etc? What is it that has aversions and desires?
How exactly do thoughts know about “wanting and rejecting”?
Thoughts pick up on pleasure and displeasure which is experienced with the senses. Thought stories explain wanting or rejecting, they explain why something is good or pleasurable or not.
Thoughts do absolutely nothing. They are not an entity and are not aware. You have simply placed the experience of pleasure and displeasure off the self and onto thoughts.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No there isn't any which is choosing.
So with that exercise did you see that there was no volition of choosing, deciding or control. Did it answer your query?

I wish you the very best on your journey.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Amo
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri May 31, 2019 1:53 am

Re: Mopping up 123

Postby Amo » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:15 am

Dear Kay,

Thank you for your final pointers which I’ll sit with. I’ll carry on with my Buddhist practice and won’t ask for another guide at LU.

Thank you so much for all your time and energy given to this process. It was very fruitful and opened up a deeper understanding of live.

I wish you all the best,
Lots of love from Germany
Amo


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