calloffthesearch

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:19 pm

Hi Pop,

thank you for your questions. I don´t want to rush over them and feel more into them so I will answer in the next post.

Love

Hendrik

User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:48 pm

Hi Pop,

to the first of your very good questions:
Notice that everything is part of one movement.
Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
There always seemed to be a boundary but there is none. All that is percieved is percieved. There is no inside of the body, everything is felt - and the body and what is elswere are sensations. The sight is a strong means to suggest an outside - and when perception happens "inside" me(?) all that is seen "outside" must be "inside" too. And there is no specific "distance" where to draw a line. It is felt directly here.
So I cannot find a boundary.
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
No, everything is "outside" - even "inside" is "outside" because in the seing there is no object. I cannot percieve an outside or an inside.
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Hm... that what sees seems not to move. The movement is seen from a still point.
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Even though it seems to be a distance, the witness is connected to the seen object/movement, so watching happens here.
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
That what witnesses seems to be still.
Is there anything which is not just happening?
Movement is happening and witnessing cannot be stopped - so is happening as well.

When it comes to personal will, it seems that it is "done". But the feeling connected to will is a sensation - without own will.
Will is more an impulse that happens. And this impulse is a sensation. The action that follows is happening as well.

The 2nd part (what ist a thought, etc) I will answer as well... want to taste that more intense.

Love

Hendrik

User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:06 pm

Dear Pop,

after the 1st part of the questions there was briefly a short “feeling” that all the aspects that seem to construct an “I” happen by themselves…. Just like clouds.

Now to the 2nd part of your questions:
Is this sensation you?
No, it is a felt phenomenon. And: it changes “form” or quality the longer or “deeper” I feel into it.
Try this exercise:
What is a thought?
Funny: thought is a sensation that is close to words or pictures. But it is a sensation. Does this make sense?
What is a sensation?
A sensation is an arising that is more in the tangible/emotional area.

Thought + Sensation:
- Both are passive they cannot think or act
- Both are seen/experienced
- … cloudlike phenomena experienced
- The question arises if both are really different – or just different shades of the same phenomenon: an arising/movement.
Does a sensation know anything about a thought?
No, it does not know anything – it happens.
Does a thought know what it is like to be a sensation?
The thought does not know that either… even though a thought seems to be similar to a sensation.
A thought has no own knowledge.
What is it that seems to link a thought to a sensation?
The link is a habit or better an assumption – so a thought. There is no link in reality.

Love
Hendrik

User avatar
pop
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:15 pm

Hi Hendrik

This is great. You are doing really well.
You are looking correctly.
You are beginning to see .

I'll just take one thing to focus on for now so we keep it simple:
Hm... that what sees seems not to move. The movement is seen from a still point.

Can you find the boundary between the still point that sees and the movement that is seen?
If so, describe it to me.


Love


Pop

User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:49 am

Dear Pop,

reading your question brought a little bliss. It is a perfect question to be with. To enjoy it longer I did not answer immediately.

So:

I cannot find a boundary between that what sees and the movement that is seen.

Seeing does not happen from a "point" - it happens. When trying to locate a place from where seeing happens, another sensation is percieved, so another object in seeing.

It seems - no it is that the movement occurs in seeing. Both are happening simultaneously.

And: the word "seeing" has a connotation of something being neccessary to see. But it happens on it own.
And "seeing" suggests that there is a supbject/object situation. But seeing is an occurence on its own.

Seeing itself "happens" in stillness.
Stillness has no location.

Stillness ist the only "constant" in all that.
Stillness is being without I.

Love & Gratitude

Hendrik

User avatar
pop
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:00 pm

Hello Hendrik,


:)


So where is Hendrik now? Body? Brain? Mind? Thought? Intention? Feeling? Perception? Attention?

What does the word "I" or "me" point to, here and now?


Love


Pop

User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:35 pm

Hi Pop,

will answer soon.

Love Hendrik

User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:30 pm

Dear Pop,

something is beginning to shift...:
When writing the last post there was a beginning of seeing through. Stillness was deeper than seeing and pervades seeing.

The days after that clarity dissolved not totally but it changed in all the action - and that is seen as well.
So where is Hendrik now?
Hendrik is more and more like a remembrance, and that is a thought.
More and more it seems that life runs on auto pilot.
Court appointments, words are said, actions happen, in car back to office... who does that?
Body?
... is functioning.
But "Hendrik" ist not the body.
Brain?
All is a sensation and each one does not proof a brain etc.
Hendrik is not in the brain.
Mind?
There is no mind - just thoughts.
Thoughts do not create a Hendrik.
Thought?
does not have a life hof its own.
Intention?
is a thought / sensation.
Feeling?
is a sensation too. But no person.
Perception?
Is happening ongoing on its own.

When I(?) "offer" all perceptions to space(?), then stillness occurs. It was there before but then it is felt more easily.
When stillness has more power or gravity(?) then perception seems like a play that occurs in stillness.

While writing the post there is the inquiry like "to who/what does that occur?" then stillness is more present.
Attention?
Changes on its own.
What does the word "I" or "me" point to, here and now?
"I" or "me" does not exist outside of thought - it does not exist on its own. It does not point.

When staring spontanously "into" now/stillness there is no I.

... this might get more stable?

Love

Hendrik

User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:14 am

... yesterday was more trying than seeing...

Love

Hendrik

User avatar
pop
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:54 am

Hi Hendrik!
something is beginning to shift...:

Yes i think so too :)


When staring spontaneously "into" now/stillness there is no I........While writing the post there is the inquiry like "to who/what does that occur?" then stillness is more present.

Yes, so when you look, there is no "I"?


Hendrik is more and more like a remembrance, and that is a thought.
More and more it seems that life runs on auto pilot.
Court appointments, words are said, actions happen, in car back to office... who does that?

Can you describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? Try to use examples from your day.


... yesterday was more trying than seeing...

Just remember that you only need to look, to stay with your immediate, direct experience, to see that the "i" is an addition
"There is no mind - just thoughts. Thoughts do not create a Hendrik." as you said.




Love,


Pop

User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:22 am

Hi Pop,

I used the last days to go deeper into that, so, here a first (not the last) answer out of the laboratory:
Can you describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? Try to use examples from your day.
To Choice/decision:

- to want to make a decision is a thought/+sensation
- to have done a decision is a thought/+sensation as well

- in between - so the "making of" a decision I cannot find a thing. It is like a black hole or at least nothing I can find.
- the decision to go running or not or to follow an invitation: a cloud of thoughtforms / arisings - but they do not "make" a decision. Then there is a feeling that could be interpreted like "I have done a decision" - but the feeling/thought is passive and the interpretation consists of just thoughts without own life or power to decide.

And that is seen/recognized and the "who" is as well a bundle of sensations, all are passive, without "who-ness".

... I (?) continue and report...

Love + eagerness

Hendrik

User avatar
pop
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:08 pm

That's great Hendrik

... I (?) continue and report...

I'll wait for your next post before replying.


Love

Pop

User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:24 am

Dear Pop,

thank you for waiting.

I wanted to feel deeper and not answer just from the memory of statements I have read.

I found out, that "more time" does not help to feel deeper. It just brings more space for more distractions... - ok, does it really? Time is a thought, the duration a sensation that is a thought claiming to know duration.
Behind that is blankness.
Space it a thought too that claims a depth or expansion. In direct experience I cannot find expansion.

Still - next time I want to answer more swiftly.

C
an you describe decision, choice
did :-)
intention,
It seems that intention is a kind of thought that "gravitises" a "field" so that thoughts of a specific kind "gather" more likely.

But intention is a thought that comes with a sensation - that itself is a thought of conviction. A
nd when the thought of intention comes again it seems that I have remembered. But it arose spontanously again. Remembering is a thought that tells so. I did not dig for the intention to be remembered again to reach a specific goal.
free will,
When I cannot decide what I think then there is no free will.
There is a thought that I decide to think of my car. But it was like this:
I just wanted to write "... to think a specific thought", then there was a thought "that is too abstract", then a thought "I can find an object / topic to think about" - than a kind of blankness - and then a tought of my (?) car.
But I did not "find" that thought. It came out of that blankness.
and control.
Then control is a thought too. "I have control over..." is a thought.
There is a thought that wishes (?) to control. There is a thought that wishing makes sense. If an action is happening there is a thought that "I" have control, same when a result is achieved.
But "result" is a concept of this causes that - or that that is connected to this.
I can find a thought that "says" so - but direct experience does not show that connection.
What makes things happen?

Actually I have no clue. Ok that is a thought as well.

Things occur.
And when the thought of "this causes that" is dropped then there is a thought of likelyness: if this kind of thought (e.g. intention) is occuring more often "then" the there is more likelyness of some sensation. But that is just another thought of connectedness.

Maybe thoughts "gravitise" or draw to them other thoughts with a similar appearence - but this itself is a thought.

And:
Things = sensations of objects/situations = thought. They are seen by "me" = thought.
The space or blankness does not "make" them happen (at least I cannot feel/see that).
How does it work?
For the "mind" the thought of "gravitation/drawing" makes sense (even "making sense" is a thought). The thought: This pulls that towards it and both get so dense that a stronger gravitation happens that again pulls something of similar kind "towards" it. But that are all thoughts.
Buddhist teach the interconnectedness of things.

But I cannot find the connection in direct experience.

So I do not really know how things work.

... a bit scary - again: behind that still there is blankness and a bit relief.

Love

Hendrik

User avatar
pop
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:11 am

Hi Hendrk

Thanks so much for your ongoing commitment to our session.

You have done a lot of good work. You see the thought /feeling connection and how thought is a labelling machine.
.. a bit scary - again: behind that still there is blankness and a bit relief.
The fear is a mechanism, a security system. It is protecting something from being found out. It is a sensation.
Look again at this fear and just let it be here.
Where in the body is being felt, bring it closer, invite it to share its wisdom. Befriend it... what is behind fear?

Can you describe this "blankness" some more?

Is there a seer, witnesser, noticer, looker, experiencer, focuser?
Is there I?

Silence is not an absence of an answer, it is the answer, there is nothing there. No one.

Again what comes up when it's considered that there really is no entity?

Love

Pop

User avatar
Hendrik
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:52 pm

Dear Pop,
thank you for your patience. We do this process till the end. If you like. I do 

So:
Look again at this fear and just let it be here. Where in the body is being felt, bring it closer, invite it to share its wisdom. Befriend it... what is behind fear?
The fear is in the belly and the chest. Behind the fear is a bit of sadness and behind that there is just blankness again, and this brings new fear. The fear is not really strong but it is an insecurity in a way.

The wisdom that is included could be, that there is no world, absolutely none.
This brings the slight fear of getting crazy. And there is a feeling like something has to die.
But there is the still “knowing”(?): crazy or dead - something is still there.
Can you describe this "blankness" some more?
The blankness is difficult to describe in words: it has something of a blackness, but it does not really seem to be only black. Because I do not experience it fully I just can say that there must be total stillness – more than I ever experienced (there was a short glimpse though). There is nothing personal, there is no expansion and still I cannot find a border. And there is life in it.
Is there a seer, witnesser, noticer, looker, experiencer, focuser?
Thought/feeling suggests so.
When I step behind thought/feeling there is experiencing – without someone doing that.
When I sense directly into thought/feeling, especially the I thought in the middle of the chest/belly, then there is a sensation that is seen, all sensations that are following or coming out of that are seen as well one after the other even though they are one arising.

When I let go of all trying to control the experiences, a slight bliss occurs shortly. This is a more “whitish” occurrence with no personality in it. … but even that is seen (even though nice…). It is a sensation like everything else, even though a nice one. Nice is a label, still it brings aliveness.

Is there I?
Only as thought/sensation.
This arising is surrounded by space/stillness. In stillness there is no I.
Silence is not an absence of an answer, it is the answer, there is nothing there. No one.
Again what comes up when it's considered that there really is no entity?
There is fear coming up. Especially when I open my eyes and let myself being sucked into forms but when I look beyond the interpretations – then I see the different colours. When everything is just colour what I see then there is no depth in “physical” space. When there is no space and no objects then I am alone – and then slight fear comes up again.
There again is stillness.

Stillness “surrounds” every arising. Or every arising “happens” in stillness?

Does an arising “happen”? E.g. the I thought: to happen it must have a specific beginning and end or contours. When I (?) focus (?) on it it does not feel that it can be absent - even though, when the focus is on another thing the I thought is not experienced.
There are no sharp contours.
To happen it must (?) enter into consciousness/stillness – but outside of consciousness it cannot be. But when it can “exist” only in consciousness/stillness then it is part of the stillness. And then it would be not different from stillness. Therefore it would not specifically “happen” because stillness occurs in itself (ok, in another flavour).
…maybe too much thinking this eveing….


Love
Hendrik


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests