calloffthesearch

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pop
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:34 pm

Hi Hendrik

OK let's look again at fear
The steering wheel: ok, fear

Liberation is not a thought, feeling or state. It is so ordinary that we have almost totally missed it. It is through direct experience that it is seen.

Ask the question :
is it true that there is no separate self whatsoever in reality?
Let the doubt in.
Ask for the truth to be revealed.
Stay with the answer until you see

Love

Pop

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Hendrik
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:20 am

Hi Pop,

the "answer" is Silence. Silence is.

... I stay in that and report.

Love
Hendrik

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pop
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:16 pm

Hi Hendrik

When you say "I" or "me" an image comes to mind.
Is this image true?
Can you find Hendrik in this silence?
Does the silence ever go away?
Does the "I" ever go away?
Which is real, immediate and directly known and which in unreal, passing and not directly known?

Love

Pop

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Hendrik
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:52 pm

Dear Pop,

the question of your friday post is great. I am with that since that time.
The one who asks for the truth to be revealed is "outside" of the seer, and a seer cannot be found (ok, it happens "within" but the seachring one is an object).
So in looking there is no self, not even a seperate one. It is silence space.

Now to your actual pointers:
When you say "I" or "me" an image comes to mind. Is this image true?
No, it is a "rememberance" - a thought of its own. It points to a past that is gone, so it stands on its own, without own truth.
Can you find Hendrik in this silence?
There is no Hendrik in silence.
Does the silence ever go away?
Silence is always here, thank god. It is the only constant that does not change. It is like a background.
Does the "I" ever go away?
I is not always present. It is a thoughtform. There can be presence without "I".
The underlaying presence / silence does not go away.
Which is real, immediate and directly known and which in unreal, passing and not directly known?
Silence is real, the "I" is a passing arising. Images are passing, same with remembrances: they seem to have a reality, but they have not. It is the now in which they are seen.
Past is unreal too.

Love

Hendrik

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pop
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:07 am

That's great Hendrik

Stay with bare observation and what is actually seen.
Really try to describe what that false sense of self is.
Is it really false? Does it seem true?
Act like your own scientist in a present-moment investigation.
Verify whatever you can through observation.


The one who asks for the truth to be revealed is "outside" of the seer, and a seer cannot be found
So in looking there is no self, not even a seperate one. It is silence space
.
Yes, super, keep returning to the Friday question if that is where your interest is

Love

Pop

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Hendrik
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:01 pm

Dear Pop,

here to your task:
Stay with bare observation and what is actually seen.
Really try to describe what that false sense of self is.
There is the feeling of existing. And this feeling is "put" into a form:
First, there is existing like a "layer" or presence of it´s own.
Second, there is a vibrational field in the chest or elswhere in the body. The body itself is not veryfied by these vibrations, they propagate no form.
Third, there seem to be borders of these fields. This gives the impression of structure and form.

But there are no real borders of the fields. When inquired into these fields they are flexible, like clouds - and the have no "me".

There is the feeling that "I" can decide where to put the concentration in the body and where to focus on. There is a thought of having an intention to move my eyes - that is just a thought. There is a pressure in the middle of the head - that is just a pressure, so no "me".
There is a thought that it is late and I (?) should (?) go to bed. This "I" seemes to be in the chest. When felt into that, it swops into the head. When felt into the head, it moves into the throat/shoulders: vibrations felt but no "me".
"Should": behind that there is nobody who is there.

It is the swiftness of all the perceptions following one after the other that gives the impression of a "me".

In looking there are fields of vibrations being experienced - each of them is passive. There are no "fields" because I cannot feel specific borders. Feeling into the vibrations they dissolve.

There are impulses to move etc. These impulses are vibrations as well. Felt into these vibrations there is no "me" either.

Presence "gives" life to the experiences but all experiences are passive. Actually: I cannot see wheather presence gives life to experiences. They happen and presence is.

Every experience is an "outside" - there is no "inside".
Is it really false? Does it seem true?
It is like a face "in" the clouds. It is percieved but has no inherent truth.

Presence is.

Love

Hendrik

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pop
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:30 am

Hi Hendrik
There is the feeling of existing


Could this "feeling" actually be a thought?



Let’s look at thought and the content of thought a little more,

Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?

Speak the word “I” silently; be aware of any sensations or responses to this word. Are any of these reactions in your body or mind by themselves YOU?

Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?

Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?”

Is the thought, "I exist" you?

Is the thought "I" you?


Love

Pop

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Hendrik
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:36 pm

Dear Pop,

to your very good pointings:

First I read your questions and did not see the sentence above, that later was read, so:
Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?
No, that is definitely not me.
Speak the word “I” silently; be aware of any sensations or responses to this word. Are any of these reactions in your body or mind by themselves YOU?
There are sensations like in the chest, throat, head, belly, arms: no me.
Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?
The sensations are stronger, the sound is familiar and seem to belong to a "me". But sound vibrations in the body are no "me".
Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?”
The combination brings a bundle of sensations that seem to constitute a "me" - but every one on its own shows no "me".
Is the thought, "I exist" you?
No, it´s not. It still is a thought.
Is the thought "I" you?
This thought brings a vibration mostly in the chest that is familiar to "be" a "me". But is has no "me" in it.

Then I read the text above your questions and that changed something:
You qouted the sentence of mine: "There is the feeling of existing..."
You asked:
Could this "feeling" actually be a thought?
Yes it is.
It was felt that a feeling has two (?) aspects: one is a pure sensation, the other one is a thought that claims something.

Here the feeling of "someone existing" has a sensation - that is simmilar to the sensation of the "I" thought - but the aspect that seems to relate or refer to a "me" is simply a thought. And this thought has no own life of itself, it "provides" a false assumtion - which is made of thoughts itself.

There was a brief experiencing that there is nobody and that there cannot be somebody.
The sensation of the "I" thought stands on its own and the seemingly attached thought that "there is a someone" is just a tought - nothing else.

For a short moment there was no personality there, an empty space, I did not exist - still perceiving. That was weird.

Up to now I took the feeling of existence for real - but even that is not real.

Thank you !

Love

Hendrik

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Hendrik
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:32 pm

Hi Pop,

is there a difference between a thought and a feeling?
Both are registered by consciousness, both are sensations and both are passive.


With all thought and feeling there is (was?) the "assumption" added that "I exist" - the experiencer.

When "I exist" is a thought - then "I" don´t exist, because a thought as no own life.

When that is a thought no "one" really exists ... and then I cannot exist.

That was the moment when something opened yesterday.

When this was true yesterday it will be true now too...

Love

Hendrik

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pop
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:26 pm

Hi Hendrik,

That was the moment when something opened yesterday.


Yes, you are doing really well.



Up to now I took the feeling of existence for real - but even that is not real.


Can you expand on this? What is real?



Love

Pop

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Hendrik
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:13 pm

Dear Pop,
I have to admit that „real“ is a label. So it is a thought. And: “I” cannot admit…
Up to now I was sure that “real” is something that is objective there. Since everything can only be there because it is perceived and perception is subjective, so “real” is subjective too. And then it is not “real” in an objective sense.
So there is nothing that is objective. But these are all thoughts…

In direct experience I do not know what real is – there is either a sensation or there is not. By just experiencing I cannot tell what “real” is. It seems that a label like “real” is not needed.
When I feel in my hand, the sensation alone does not tell that there is a real hand with 5 fingers. The sensation is there. In dream state sensations are there – are they less real?
Ok, there is that in which sensations are perceived, without that nothing is. That could deserve a label like “real” - but it does not need such a label.

Back to the feeling of existence. It seemed to provide a “center”. But when this is a thought – then I don´t know what is real any more. Then the “center” has gone.

Love
Hendrik

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pop
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:08 am

Hi Hendrik


In direct experience I do not know what real is – there is either a sensation or there is not. By just experiencing I cannot tell what “real” is. It seems that a label like “real” is not needed


Yes the label is limiting and not needed, except to communicate.
However beyond the labels is there an aliveness, an experience happening?

There was a brief experiencing that there is nobody and that there cannot be somebody.
The sensation of the "I" thought stands on its own and the seemingly attached thought that "there is a someone" is just a thought - nothing else.

So when the “I” has been seen through what's left?


Love

Pop

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Hendrik
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:31 pm

Dear Pop,

to your questions:
However beyond the labels is there an aliveness, an experience happening?
Yes, behind there is something like aliveness and because it is seen, it is an experience.

So when the “I” has been seen through what's left?
I would like to say, "great, seeing all the time" - but honestly:

At the moment there is a little knowing of the fact that there is no separate I. Still identification happens. When this is realised I (?) step back and observe what felt like a "me", so there is an opening to a broader seing + energy changes to more pleasurable.
Another stepping back and the "one" who likes that is seen as a thoughtform as well.

When it is managed to see through, there is a calm silent joy and an openess.

When "pulled" into identification "by" a strong trigger, there has to happen a coming up to the surface and looking again.

I know that there cannot be someone that can be triggered or pulled into identification, because even that is seen. Still it happens, or looks like that in the first moment.

In looking deeper there is something experienced (trigger) - but not really: what is experienced is a sensation (e.g. fear or sadness). Feeling the sensation specifically there is no proof of "being triggered" - it is felt, that´s it. And: behind fear or sadness I cannot find a someone.

In a way a play of aliveness...

Ok, there is an expectation of the feeling of a "breakthrough"... seeing this, it gets more open again.

Love + gratitude

Hendrik

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Hendrik
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby Hendrik » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:51 pm

...

ok, there is this ground beingness, that is always here.

That is left, when looked through the "I".

Love

Hendrik

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pop
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Re: calloffthesearch

Postby pop » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:02 pm

Hi Hendrik!

Firstly i hope you're still enjoying the inquiry. I am!

Yes, behind there is something like aliveness and because it is seen, it is an experience.


Stay with the aliveness. *Feel* aliveness. No need to think what it is. It is formless so once you say it is seen and an experience you have moved from it. Aliveness is experience, not an experience


behind fear or sadness I cannot find a someone.


Fear often happens as looking gets clearer.
One of the main emotions that seem to show up is that of fear.
Simply notice the emotion without any label and see if those emotions are felt by anyone, or are happening to anyone?

examine fear as a protective mechanism and investigate if there is actually anything there that can be harmed?

When it comes to fear, it may be that there is a fear of disappearing/annihilation.
However remember you cannot disappear, because what you thought you are is just an imagining, and life goes on after seeing this.
You have seen that there is an on-going aliveness.
The Illusion is simply seen for what it is – just an Illusion. Nothing of significance is lost.


Ok, there is an expectation of the feeling of a "breakthrough"... seeing this, it gets more open again.


Yes very good to see this.



Love


Pop


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