Seeing that frees

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Echoz
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Echoz » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:56 pm

Take a break....and then come back, if you want, and let me know what questions you've found. And which answers to them - right in your direct experience. And if something isn't clear.
Sounds good, thanks :)

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Stillness
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Stillness » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:00 pm

You'll find me here :-) have a great time
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Echoz
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Echoz » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:37 pm

Hello :)

I would like your guidance once again.

Recently I have had feeling of fear and unworthiness come up in regards to seeing the self for what it is. These feelings arise and pass away as all things do, but there is a tightness that seems to occur at times in the chest. Could you help me investigate these sensations?

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Stillness
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Stillness » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:11 pm

Oh, I missed your message! I didn't receive an email alerting me, and just saw it by chance now. Do you still want to continue? If yes, what's your topic right now?
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Echoz
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Echoz » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:08 am

I'm back if you would be willing to continue.

Not really sure what to do to at the moment. There is an expectation that something will need to change or happen to see what the "I" is or is not.

Thoughts come and go, sometimes they are taken seriously as if they are concrete.

I still feel like "my" story is real and independent. I can break this down on an intellectual level, but experientially it is not seen.

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Stillness
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Stillness » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:15 am

Great that you're back :-) Let's continue
I can break this down on an intellectual level, but experientially it is not seen.
Yes, I understand.
I still feel like "my" story is real
What is your story made of?

Close your eyes - what is your story?

Open your eyes - where is your story? Is it real?

Everything's here: table, chair, wall, fingers, feet - but where is your story?

You are here. There's something here, like presence.

But do "you" - as you take yourself to be - exist outside of the story?

Did the story ever appear in reality?
This Here Now

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Echoz
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Echoz » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:17 am

Close your eyes - what is your story?
Thoughts.
Open your eyes - where is your story? Is it real?
The story is the past or potential future. The thoughts occur, but they aren't solid.

Everything's here: table, chair, wall, fingers, feet - but where is your story?
I can look at all these things and get a story, but it's just another story/more thoughts.

You are here. There's something here, like presence.

But do "you" - as you take yourself to be - exist outside of the story?
I don't see a "you" being separate from the story.

Did the story ever appear in reality?
No, it's not some solid thing if that's what you mean. It only exists in thoughts.

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Stillness
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Stillness » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:00 pm

You will not see, unless you're really looking.
Close your eyes - what is your story?
Thoughts.
That's a very general answer, isn't it?

Right now, close your eyes - what is your story? In this moment? LOOK at it and tell me what it is. What do you SEE?

And then - 10 minutes later - close your eyes, look again. What is your story now? Tell me, what do you SEE? Is it the same as 5 minutes ago?

Then open you eyes - again, tell me what do you SEE? What is really here? What is real?

Where - in everything you see - do you SEE your story?
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Echoz
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Echoz » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:16 pm

Right now, close your eyes - what is your story? In this moment? LOOK at it and tell me what it is. What do you SEE?
sensations in the feet and back, hearing door close, sensation in face, thoughts arising about work. Just sensations arising.

And then - 10 minutes later - close your eyes, look again. What is your story now? Tell me, what do you SEE? Is it the same as 5 minutes ago?
Sensation in chest and hand, thoughts about this, sensation in chest, hearing computer. It's all different from 5 minutes ago.

Then open you eyes - again, tell me what do you SEE? What is really here? What is real?
See the computer, hear the computer, sensation in forehead, thought about family, feeling in ear.

The sensations are real and keep occurring. Thoughts keep happening, they arise, but they aren't solid , real, things, can't grasp onto them.

Where - in everything you see - do you SEE your story?
I see the story in thoughts. I don't even see it all the time, but thoughts create this linear feeling, the thoughts often think about the past or expectations of the future/fantasy.

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Stillness
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Stillness » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:09 pm

sensations in the feet and back, hearing door close, sensation in face,
Sensations are there and you are aware of them. But I'm not asking what your sensations are or what's the entirety of your experience. I'm asking: What is the "story of you"? What exactly do you see when you think of "you"?

What is it now? And then after 10 minutes?

And when you open your eyes and look around, where is it?
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Echoz
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Echoz » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:18 pm

I'm asking: What is the "story of you"? What exactly do you see when you think of "you"?
The story of "me" is memories I have about life, early life memories with sibling/friends and more recent memories like of work. When I think of "me" I see more memories of the past and identities pop up like son, brother, friend, worker. Thoughts about my beliefs also come up like politics and religion, basically all my opinions that are believed to be "right".
What is it now? And then after 10 minutes?
Right now when I think of me I see a recent conversation with a family member.

10 minutes later:
When I think of "me" I see me looking to see what "me" is. A "seeker" or spiritual person looking for something.
And when you open your eyes and look around, where is it?
The vividness of the thoughts vanish. It's not here in the world, sometimes similar thoughts are still arising, but they seem more real with my eyes closed.

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Stillness
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Stillness » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:51 pm

Right now when I think of me I see a recent conversation with a family member.

10 minutes later:
When I think of "me" I see me looking to see what "me" is.
Great! Now, look at this main character "you" - you 'see' it in your thoughts, right? But when you look around - again: where is it? Where is it?

I'm not asking whether you exist.

I'm asking whether the main character of your thoughts exists.

Because you believe that this is who you are. That this main character that you see all the time is real.

Can it anywhere be found in reality? Look!
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Echoz
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Echoz » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:14 pm

Great! Now, look at this main character "you" - you 'see' it in your thoughts, right?
Yes, it's see the character in thoughts.
But when you look around - again: where is it? Where is it?
I can't find it anywhere except in thoughts.

Can it anywhere be found in reality? Look!
No, just in thoughts. And I just noticed that the thoughts and memories I have are all very distorted because none of them are in first person, they are in third person like watching a movie, which is just weird...

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Stillness
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Stillness » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:34 pm

Yes, you're starting to see this.
And I just noticed that the thoughts and memories I have are all very distorted because none of them are in first person, they are in third person like watching a movie, which is just weird...
Exactly, you see a third person, maybe because it isn't you :-)
like watching a movie
It is a movie. Or you could say, it's a constant dream.

You constantly see a fictional character that you - as present experiencing - identify with.

What you identify with is actually just one of the things that you experience: a constant thought story about a fictional character, that has never existed. It never had an appearance in reality. Or has it? Look!
This Here Now

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Echoz
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Re: Seeing that frees

Postby Echoz » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:50 pm

What you identify with is actually just one of the things that you experience: a constant thought story about a fictional character, that has never existed. It never had an appearance in reality. Or has it? Look!
I can't find the story in reality, it's only comes up in thoughts


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