looking for clarity

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arus7
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:36 am

Hi Ilona, I agree, it is still not clear.

So I started afresh and sat quietly, eyes closed, to look. At first there were several thoughts coming in which were believed in some way, and I felt as if there was a separate "me" sitting there. I tried to relax into just looking, letting the thoughts come and go with the other sensations. Indeed this was more relaxing, and the feeling was more of just being the space in which the thoughts and sensations were arising, or like a "receiver" for these signals, not a separate entity outside what was happening. As I am typing this, some fear arose, and again the first response is to take that as evidence of fear about "me". I am looking at this fear, and it is a sensation and some occasional thoughts, not a separate "me".

Last few days I have been traveling for work, with kids, and there has been a lot of necessary interactions. When this happens a personality arises to interact, and it again feels like a separate "me". I usually forget to look at such times, under the pressure to do or say things. Even after the interactions, this personality has been operating, and has its set of worries, hopes and concerns. Today as I was looking without bringing in this personality during such an interaction, one of my children said "why are you looking at me as if I'm some sort of experiment?".

It seems that if I stay keenly aware of my feelings, sensations and thoughts, there is no personal separate "me". When that keen awareness is absent, as it mostly is absent during interactions and activity, there is the sense and concern over a separate "me".

Is there a separate "me" that is anxious to survive and has fears over it, and is actively pursuing its welfare? When I pose that question to myself, it feels at first that there is. All the fears and demands for safety rise up as I remember all my concerns. It takes sitting in quiet and solitude to see that there is no evidence for a separate entity.

As I look at everything going on with me, or causing me concern, it still seems that the simple key is seeing clearly that there is no separate self all the time. And yet this no-separate-me is not constantly clear to me. I presume I have to just spend time quietly seeing this, as much as possible? Or is there some back-door to this realization?

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Ilona
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:33 pm

Thank you for sharing.
You say there is a concern over a separate me. Ok, that sense of separate me is included too. Is it ok for it to arise? Can you welcome that sense instead of being concerned? It want to be seen and allowed. Is it safe to feel what you feel?

We have been going round and round here. I just want to say, that maybe a live meeting over Skype would help to end the merry go round. I know that working with text is limited and we have been at this for a while. So, if interested, pm me.

Now what you sound like is this:
There is no unicorn. But it’s not always clear. Sometimes I have a concern that unicorn exists.

What is there that still does not want to let go of belief in a unicorn?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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arus7
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:11 pm

Hi Ilona, yes I would like a Skype session. I will look up your instructions via the LU site for how to go about this for a 90 minute session, and will figure out a time away from kids and work. I gather I should contact you via Skype to set this up? Is that what you meant by "pm me"?

I agree we have been going around and around. And yet in my outer life things have been changing, and I don't know where it is leading, but there is more trust in life there. There is both an addiction to staying lost in thought, but then when looking arises I do feel the beautiful mystery of existence, and I want to explore. The sense of a separate me that needs protecting does keep arising, but when there is enough trouble on the personal front, there is a kind of short-circuit, and I find that I am looking again. So the suffering cannot get too intense before the looking comes in. On the flip side, the looking does not get too intense before the thinking takes over.

So while I have not made that much progress in looking from the time we started, no deep revelations, there is somehow less struggle over it because I know that when the going gets tough I can ultimately settle into just looking. It is ok for the sense of a separate me to arise, I am not feeling that I have to root it out in order to escape it. Things do feel safer, because I cannot see anything that ultimately can get hurt.

I feel there is a unicorn, then I look carefully and see that there is no evidence of a unicorn, but then that moment passes and I feel there is a unicorn, etc. What does not want to let go of this belief? There is a feeling I have to "hold it together" to protect the children. There is some enjoyment of some small pleasures of doing my work perhaps. But other than that I cannot think what is holding the belief in separate self. I would have said I was ready to "die" to the illusion of separateness, except some natural fear of just starting, like the welling up of fear before beginning a roller coaster ride. It feels like the thinking mind wants to protect its existence and is trying hard to do so with every trick at its disposal, "not today, wait till tomorrow" to says, and it is working so far.

Thanks

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Ilona
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:11 pm

There is a feeling I have to "hold it together" to protect the children
Right, that’s it. What are you holding together? What is it here now that you are holding?
What are you in control of right now?

I am sending you pm (private message).

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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arus7
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:57 pm

Hi Ilona, obviously I don't know what it is like to have a clear understanding of what I really am and am not. But given that I have been under the illusion of a separate "me" for my whole life, the no-separate-self realization seems like a kind of "death" to my mind. Minimally, one hears of people who have given up their jobs or have some form of breakdown at the time of realization. As I said earlier, even when I was focussing on looking when in the company of my younger child, they responded by asking "why are you looking at me like I'm an experiment". So all this has given the impression to me that my relationship with the kids might be disrupted in some way or another. And yet, given the traumas they have undergone in my family crisis, they look to me as their pillar of support whom they can always count on. Therefore there is some hesitation in "letting go", since that takes me into some unknown state, or perhaps makes me behave in some way that spooks the kids. So the only thing I am "holding together" is my way of behaving right now, which is at least familiar and comfortable to the kids, even if it is deluded about the nature of the separate self. Does that answer your question?

Sorry, I am pretty hopeless with technology, so I am still confused about the pm. I looked this up on LU site and it seems that it should show up as an email to me to see the pm, but I didn't receive any such email. Is there something I should be doing to read your pm?

Thanks

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arus7
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:58 pm

PS I should be available to Skype in next couple of days. I will see if I can get this pm, and then arrange possible time.

Thanks

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:15 pm

Understood, I emailed you instead.

I hear you that it feels like death, but can something that does not exist die? Can a unicorn die?
Everyone has a unique unfoldment, some people do leave jobs and some don’t. It’s another expectation at play, something is going to happen, that you don’t want. But, nothing is going to happen, because there is no self, no entity in charge already. Santa did not quit the job, it’s just fictional character.

So we have more fears and more expectations. It will be good to talk on video.

Sending love

Ps. The time of sending email is 12:40 here.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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arus7
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:42 pm

Hi Ilona, I'm very sorry, but I am not receiving these emails from you. I have looked in my email spam folder etc., and I have taken into account the time of sending from your time zone, and I don't see anything there.

I am receiving email from the LU admin informing me when you have posted something here, but not from you directly.

I'm not sure what your email address is, but not seeing anything that might be from you. Would it be easier if you tell me your address and I then send you an email for you to respond to?

Sorry for wasting your time on this!

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:45 pm

Sure, send me a message to stillness00joy@gmail.com
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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arus7
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:18 pm

Hi Ilona, back on east coast, briefly. Had some time for just looking, letting sense perceptions and thoughts play out without (much) interpretation, bubbling away in a relaxing fashion. Even emotions can be seen and come and go in that way. There is a silence in just being neutral. Until some thought-story took over and absorbed my attention, sometimes by need for some action or in response to someone else. And then repeat.

Want to deepen into the looking, and yet there is something that finds it uncomfortable at some point and seeks escape.

Looking forward to our talking in a few days

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:38 pm

Lovely to notice, that even emotions can be seen and pass away.
There is noticing, witnessing, observing — is there a witness?


There is natural tension- seeking pleasure, avoiding pain. It is ok not to like the uncomfortable and unpleasant. Life is not here to be liked, or disliked, it’s here to be lived fully. And life includes all: the good the bad and the ugly and knowing what is what. Running away from unpleasant is a habit. Meeting all as it comes with openes is a radically different way of living. Small steps. Each moment.

What is not allowed? What should be different?
These are good questions to ask.
Then listen to the answer and meet that answer.

It’s ok to feel what you feel.
Or not?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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arus7
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:12 pm

Hi Ilona, yesterday there was trouble at home and there was fear and other unpleasant emotions. There was the presence there to remember to look and feel these emotions. I remembered to not look as a means to getting rid of the emotions. Still the emotions were unpleasant, and I asked myself what was so intolerable, since these were just some strong feelings. And there was also some resistance, that wanted them to go away, and also a sense of "what am I going to do, there is no way out?". But then I reminded myself that life will always find a way, it never gets stuck, something will happen, and I don't need to know or worry. So all these things were going on in a big jumble.

The resistance feels like a separate self, it feels like grave concern over a "small me". This feeling is still there after all these months, which is why I look forward to our talking. I know that if I drill down into it I can see that there is no such separate self, but it is not automatic, and there is suffering from this.

What is not allowed? What should be different? As unpleasant as all the above was, and even more unpleasant as it might get and has been in the past, I can honestly say that everything is allowed and nothing need be different. I say this because I don't want to have to rely on outer circumstances to keep me happy, I don't want to be held hostage in this way any longer. So while there is resistance to the unpleasant things happening, habitually, I do not ask for anything to be different than what it is. I would like to learn to be with whatever arises, and I think I am learning that. But talking will be welcome.

There are also quieter times where I am able to just let there be looking and feeling of the bare sensations and colors and bubbling thoughts and emotions, without interpretation. At such times it feels as if I am touching something deeper and more powerful, that there is no separate self.

Thanks

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:31 pm

Dear arus, how are you feeling after the session?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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arus7
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:58 pm

Hi Ilona, it was great to talk to you in the session. But I confess I still feel pretty much as I did before it. I had a period when I woke up at night to intense looking, where there was the energy and curiosity to look at everything going on, to see the emotions and interpretations and sensations, hunting for what I was. But then after a long time, this was overtaken by lots of thoughts and confusion and need for distraction. This is how things have been for a while before our session too. Still I am not complaining, as I said there is an OK-ness to this situation, but no breakthroughs.

Looking at what I want now, I see that right from the start I felt that the key thing to understand deeply (which I understand at some level intellectually and by feeling) is the absence of the separate self. This is critical to understand in the midst of suffering and fear. I feel it is the knife that can cut through all other problems and complexities. But I am still not perfectly clear especially when there is suffering or other challenges. Whenever there is the energy and curiosity, this is where I look.

For all other considerations, I see no end in sight, whereas the breaking up of the illusion of being a separate entity seems so close at hand. I'm surprised I haven't got it after all these months.

Thanks

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Ilona
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:31 pm

Dear friend,
The process is unique for you. And it takes as long as it takes. Nothing here to compare or expect. Just trust the process and keep looking. Sometimes the shifts are tiny and gradual, so subtle that can even pass unnoticed.
Ok-isness to situations is a nice confirmation that something is looking different.

What cuts through problems and complexities is seeing that there is no point to create them. Mind starts creating problems in order to solve them it does that to feel safe.

So look here now- are you safe?

Where is unsafe?

When it is unsafe?

Without thoughts about future, where is anxiety?

What is that feels unsafe?

Explore this wanting to be safe and write what you notice.
Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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