looking for clarity

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arus7
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looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:18 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The "me" arises when I suffer, am fearful or when I have unmet or future-oriented desires. When I focus on this "me", it appears to be a bundle of thoughts/feelings itself rather than an independent reality. Possibly there is no "one" getting upset except this pretense of thoughts. But I am foggy, I can't hold this understanding/seeing long.

What are you looking for at LU?
I want to see the reality underlying my sense of "self". Indeed such an entity does not fit my scientific understanding, but it feels real enough a lot of the time, always hiding just around the corner of full view. I want to really see what's going on without any fogginess, so that my living is aligned with this seeing. If there is some inescapable suffering to be borne I can accept that, but I don't want to be caught in illusion and suffer as a result of that. I have found in professional life that sincere discussions with others can help clarify issues, to taste the truth in situations that are initially confusing. Often, talking only to oneself in one's head does not lead to this clarity. I hope that at the very least, sharing the exploration of what lies behind the "me" with others will help to bring about greater clarity.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
My hope is that someone who has already gone to the core of the "me" identity can catch and point out some of the tricks my mind might be playing as I look into it. Words come so easily to the mind, and can lead one down false paths, especially in psychologically loaded situations. I hope that a guide can help cut through that, keeping my attention on what is real rather than the word/concept arguments. I hope that a guide can focus me on inspecting those strategically key beliefs that underlie the entire structure of "self", pulling on those to bring the entire edifice of illusion down, more efficiently than I could unaided. There are of course fears that come up in such an inquiry, and I hope a guide can help me see through these fears.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have no formal "spiritual practice" and never found that direction appealing or intuitively reasonable. I have long had an interest in the kind of spirituality talked/written about by J. Krishnamurti and Eckart Tolle, for a total of decades in fact, but without it pushing me out of my outwardly directed life. Only in the last few years, has my family upheaval created a hole in my life so big that many of things I previously read have started to resonate loudly. And it is only in this period that I have looked to study my own internal state, even in the midst of suffering, rather than just "running away", where I have stayed with a nocturnal panic attack rather than turn to a book of show to escape. Only in the last few years, have I looked at the outward crises as a wake-up call to be grateful for. I now spend time walking in Nature, watching the mind as it wanders, find myself identifying with its thoughts and then returning back to watching neutrally. There is still suffering when "things go wrong" as they frequently do. I often then look to see "what is suffering?", and it is hard to see what could be suffering, but suffering still seems to persist. It consists of mental upheavals back and forth. I look at the striving that I am involved in in daily life, and it has a tight hold, there is fear in letting go of striving, it seems necessary for my and my family's survival. I am examining guilt for suffering in my family, and my inability to relieve it, and this is a constant sore point for any spiritual "progress". In summary, I am still trying to make peace between the life of seeing and the life of doing, with the latter involving effort and anxiety and failures. In this there is considerable confusion still.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:14 pm

Hi Arus,
Welcome to the forum, glad you made it here. And thank you for patience waiting for a guide.
I hear your call for clarity.
Let’s have a conversation and see what gets revealed.
I made this video, which may be helpful for you to see where and how this separate self is getting created. https://youtu.be/_w0wnR72604
Watch it and write to me what you notice, what is true to you.

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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arus7
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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:52 am

Hi Ilona, thanks for helping me. I watched your video (twice). Through it, and through reading some of the other threads while I was waiting in the last few days, I was struck by the "double life" that I lead, lost in thoughts of past/future and then returning back to present. In the "story", present fits between past and future, but my experience is that it is qualitatively different, and the more I look at the past/future thoughts the less clear I am as to their relevance or reality. And yet, while watching your video a strong reaction is that if I were to not take the mind movies seriously I would not take the steps to protect my future "nows", that the mental extrapolations are key to acting towards obtaining the desirable future. In my standard world view, that is why the movies are there, as a way of evaluating and choosing from different options for my behavior. It is just that this process has somehow run amok, leading to a lot of misery.

In the video, you asked where the mind screen is. I could not find a physical location by my direct experience, but of course my education is to think that it was in my brain in the form of thoughts. In some sense all my direct experience seems to take place without any location, "location" only makes sense as part of the constructed story within the mind movie.

In summary, the mental movies seem to be a mix of necessary planning and evaluating, combined with less essential fantasizing, fear, anxiety, and distraction from boredom or discomfort. For the planning/evaluating it does seem like the character in the mental movies IS me. So I am not able to watch the mind movies as "pure fiction" irrelevant to reality.
I would love to be free of the efforting and worrying, but it doesn't feel like I can do that so easily.

But I can sense that I am muddled, so would appreciate some guidance on discovering the true significance of the "me" of my mind movies, and all its plotting, striving and desperation.

Thanks,

Arus

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:20 pm

Thank you for honest reply.
not take the mind movies seriously I would not take the steps to protect my future "nows", that the mental extrapolations are key to acting towards obtaining the desirable future.
There is nothing wrong with making plans, buying tickets, making appointments, arrangements etc. It’s what is happening, when there is a need for that.
But the protection of future nows, is the anxiety and fear about what is not happening.
Is there future now?
Or just here and now? Can you fall out of now?
When you think about future scenario, are you no longer here now? How do you see that?

Are you in control of what happens in the future? Does worrying help?
Are you in control of what is happening here now? If so, what are you in control of now?

Explore this and write to me.

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:41 am

Hi Ilona, today I tried to feel out some answers to the questions raised.

I see that SOME mental movies do have a role in exploring different scenarios so that decisions can be made, as I said last time, but this is done in a cool unemotional way. The trouble is when the movies play out fantasies or fears in an emotional way. Even the pleasant fantasies end in some pain when the bubble pops and one returns to reality, and the fears grip you in suffering the whole time. The mental movie grabs you and you forget that you are HERE NOW, instead you are lost inside the movie, feeling as if it were real. The animal fear you feel when you see an immediate danger seems to be hijacked by the mental movies, so you feel scared even about imagined future dangers that may or may not happen. Even though it seems worth playing out possible future dangers mentally so you can take action to avoid them, the problem arises when one is swept away by paralyzing fear and the mental movies turn to scary movies. I would be happy to drop this aspect of the mental movies: losing yourself in identification with the character and feeling their fear or even their pleasure. I don't see that this emotional identification helps at all, and I think what is lost by it is that one is desensitized and distracted from the full texture of what is here now.

FUTURE vs. NOW: The here and now is clearly real, and there is no falling out of it. But I do not have the words or clarity to express the reality (or not) of the future. It is true that I never get there, but it does seem like my memories of planning in the past are getting fulfilled (partially) in the present, which gives me reason to plan in the present as an investment for some sort of future. If the future has absolutely no reality, then why am I planning at all now? That's the way it feels, but it is not clear.

CONTROL: I am not *fully* in control of now or the future. But there is a provisional and partial control I feel: when I drive my car I have the thought that I want to go to the shop and I make the moves to drive there, and mostly I succeed. But occasionally something goes "wrong" and I don't. So in the short term I feel a kind of control, but with external factors being somewhat unpredictable and uncontrolled. Even this short term sense of control is a bit fake, because I do not control the controlling thoughts themselves, such as "I want to drive to the shop"! These just appear in my head based on external stimuli or triggered by other thoughts which I also don't control. So in this deepest sense I do no control anything. But there are some controlling thoughts, which frequently get what they want in the short term. In the long term many things do not go as planned. In my life I have had long term "disasters" as well as "triumphs". Even the "disasters" have helped wake me up to the possibility that I am causing my own suffering through deep-rooted beliefs, so in this sense they are not disasters.

I do no mind letting go of trying to be in control, especially if it's an illusion anyway. But it is a kind of reflex, and it is shrouded in confusion, so I do not know the wise course of action. I feel like letting go of the controlling reflex would be like "taking my hands off the steering wheel", and me and my family would not survive. Not sure how to find the sensible balance without a lot of stress.

Sorry message a bit long.

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:50 pm

Thank you for taking time to reply fully and openly.
Yes, there is a fear to let go of control and it seems that the family will not survive.
But what if there never was control, only an idea that you were in charge of what happens? The family and you are doing just fine. The body is doing just fine. Everything is taken care of.
It’s a bit like going in a rollercoaster and sitting in the first car, holding in to a wheel. You think you are driving the car and it goes where you want it to go. But then you take the hands off the wheel and see, that the car keeps going, there are rails there and it goes without your controlling. The wheel is part of the ride...
so look once more and look deeply, what are you in control of right here right now.
Are you making colours appear? Are you choosing what sounds are there? Are you in charge which sensations are present? How about thoughts, do you know what thought will show up before it arrives? And are you making emotions come and go? Are you making these words make sense, or is reading simply happening and understanding happening? Can you read words and not see the meaning? How about body, do you make it grow, renew, do you beat the heart, digest, or it is all simply happening?
What are you doing now in order to survive?

In truth, what are you in charge off?
Describe what you notice.

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:41 am

Hi Ilona, I am not making colors, sounds, or sensations appear. Nor am I making my body grow, or heart beat, or stomach digest. These are happening just as the sun rises, without my doing it. Even emotions just seem to appear without my control. But thoughts and images are trickier. When I look at them closely they also are seen to arise without my making them. Indeed, if I was to try to make thoughts, I would first have to have an earlier thought that wants to do that, and I do not control whether that earlier thought appears or not. So if I have a thought "let me imagine an elephant", then very frequently this will be followed by a mental image of an elephant. In this sense my first thought "made" or led to the image. But I do not control whether I have that first thought to imagine an elephant. Instead I might have thought to imagine a flower. So in some ultimate sense I do not control my thoughts or mental images. The thoughts and images trigger many emotions, and so these are also not under my control. The thoughts can also trigger actions, a thought "lift your right hand" followed by my right hand rising. But again that thought could have been "lift your left hand", and I do not control which thought it is. So ultimately I do not control my actions.

As I sit here looking in the present, I don't control anything that appears to me, whether thoughts, images, emotions, sense perceptions or movements. Yet, as soon as I mentally look back into the past, it seems as if thought "takes credit" for a lot that has happened. Returning to focusing sharply on the present instant, I try to check again what control I have over anything, and feel surprised that I cannot point to anything I control.

I have played with these questions through the day. When I was driving my car, it seemed very important that I "control" the car with great care so as to stay safe. It did not feel like I was on a roller coaster and could just abandon myself to the exhilarating ride. I literally had to keep my hands on the wheel. Now, of course one thought at that time was "steer carefully, there is no room for error", but it is true that I did not choose that thought. In this sense my thoughts just arose by themselves and decided to drive the car safely, and I just went for the ride. Once I forgot about "liberation unleashed", my thoughts fell below conscious level and I just drove the car reflexively, without the slightest effort or deliberation.

This car experience seems like a metaphor for the rest of my life: thoughts arise saying "Keep your hands on the wheel, steer carefully, there is no room for error", and following these thoughts I do my best at the level of action. But there is the strain of having to do this, and when I look back on events I feel like I was needed to keep myself and my family thriving, and when I look forwards I feel like I am also needed for the same reason. Only focussed on the present moment does it not feel this way.

The feeling that "I" am needed for survival of the family or myself arises most conspicuously when there is a difficult or wrenching decision, where I cannot figure out what to do. If there is simply nothing I can do about a situation I am in, or if the decision is obvious, then "I" the controller (or even the illusion of such) does not really appear: the "driving" just takes place without "me".

You raised the roller coaster analogy, and in it you say "you take the hands off the wheel and see". How can I experiment to "see, that the car keeps going, there are rails there...", as you say. I would love to find this out for myself.

Thanks!

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:36 pm

Great work looking.
Let’s examine the language and how it creates the doer.
See, our language is such that it has nouns and verbs, objects, subjects and anction. It appears that there is a doer. Like wind is blowing. It seems that there is such an object as wind that is doing the blowing. But in actuality “wind is blowing” is a name for a sensation that is felt.
There is a language exercise in this link, do it here or on paper.
http://markedeternal.blogspot.com/2012/05/labels.html
See if it is the i that is driving the car. :)

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:39 am

Hi Ilona, I did the exercise on paper. Oddly enough, as soon as I started to do the part of the exercise where I deliberately used "I" to describe experience, I found it very strange to see my hand writing all by itself! This eventually stopped and I continued the exercise: "I taste the coffee", "I hear a truck", "I see the clock", etc., and then compared to the part of the exercise where I dropped the "I": "feeling cool air breathed", "hearing hum in ear", "seeing person walk past" etc. The main difference I felt between these two ways of experiencing was that with the "I" there is a (mild) pressure or tension in my head, while there is a freer feeling without the "I". But I would not say that this difference is very pronounced for me.

Then I asked myself which was truer. I see that without "I" more closely matches what is experienced, in that sense truer. And yet, when I try to shift entirely to this way of perceiving I get resistance from my past training and "world view", in which the character "I" is central to how I go about thinking about the world and how to operate in it. I felt as if dropping that "I" in general I would not be able to think (and maybe that's good but it's disorienting). It seems that as soon as the "I" arises my thoughts go into the past or the future, and when my thoughts go to past and future suddenly there is an "I". In the morning I (involuntarily) found myself lost in a fantasy in which "I" did something clever at work and everyone admired "me" for it, but then I returned to the present moment and the "I" was gone again (after a few seconds of annoyance for being taken in by the fantasy).

When I went jogging, I found myself feeling tired and struggling, with thoughts checking how much time was left to go and feeling disappointed when I saw the answer. But I switched to just feeling what was there without the "I": "ache in legs", "deep breaths", etc. and it did seem that the suffering was less. I tried this switching to perceiving without "I" several times in the day, and it does seem to remove suffering. But it is like a tight rope for me, I easily fall out of this way of perceiving and back to thoughts of "I" and past/future. And it has been like this for a while.

Beyond the issue of "mere" language, I see the following situation illustrating the sting of the "I" for me. Sometimes at an airport I will hear an announcement, "Flight XYZ has been cancelled due to ...", and I might not give it too much importance other than mild sympathy for those who were due to fly on it. But if the next minute I recalled that Flight XYZ was actually "MY" flight, then suddenly the whole incident feels very different. There are a flood of thoughts and emotions, "how will I get to where I'm going", "I won't be in time for the big event!", "where will I stay tonight in this strange town?", "what will happen to my checked bags", etc. So the "MY" has made all the difference to how I react to the announcement, it has a heavy weight. Would you say that this heavy emotional "MY" was also a total illusion? How to see that? How would one react without this "MY" feeling when a flight is cancelled, or some other bad news?

Thanks.

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:01 pm

Thank you for doing the exercise and describing how it was for you.
The point was to see that I word is a part of language and we can use it or not to describe what is happening, that which is happening is not affected by description.

Do you like watching sports? Let’s say football. There are players on the field kicking the ball and the game is full on. Then there are comentators, who talk about the game, revise best moments, share hopes about who wins, tell stories about players. All that goes on too, but does commentating affect the game?
So is this voice in the head, it keeps talking about stuff that has happened, may happen, that is not happening here now and there is a belief, that this commentator is affecting what is happening in the game. Check for yourself, what does this commentator know? Does he make things happen? Or it talks about a character in the story? Who is the voice talking to? And who is listening?

Explore this.

And as for airport thing, there may be two ways to react to delayed flight, one is with panic and another calmly and trusting that all is taken care of..
That’s all. Shit still happens. But it does not need to make huge waves.

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:39 am

Hi Ilona, I'm not much of a watcher of sports, but I have seen some games on TV once in a while, so I know what you mean.
Of course, the commentators try to spice up the game with their statements, going back and forth from past to future, as well as reliving the action on the field. But they do not affect the game itself, they only tell stories around it. I see the analogy with the voice in the head, so I looked into it today as you suggested. This voice is definitely a blabber-mouth and does not seem to have much insight. One issue that came up is separating two different kinds of thoughts. One kind involves planning and deliberating actions, say analogous to the football player deciding which way to dodge an opponent, so these are really part of the "game". The other kind is pure commentary, and I cannot see any useful purpose in it, in that sense not part of the "game".

One problem for me has been that the distinction between these two kinds of thoughts gets blurred at times, say when put into a difficult situation where I don't know what to do. This happened today, when I had to deal with a difficult and chronic family situation, but today I was watching more closely. I did not know how to wisely deal with the situation (still don't) and so found the uncertainty and hesitation to be uncomfortable, and the brain began its pattern of hunting for solutions without finding any. But beyond being stuck, like when stuck on a hard crossword puzzle, I noticed the commentator thoughts starting up: "Oh no, you see this is terrible, you don't know what to do but you should know", and so on. Normally, the being challenged, stuck, and the commenting would happen almost together and I would not separate their qualities. Today, it seemed there was a separation, the being stuck and looking for different directions to go seems like part of the action, like a chess player pondering their next move but not having any great insight and therefore doing a random move and hoping for the best. The trouble came only from the commentator thoughts which were not the least bit helpful, they just exaggerate the crisis and the emotions. They have no insight into the problems or challenges. So I feel I have a better sense of the sharp distinction between the "commentator" thoughts and the "player's" thoughts, the latter being part of the action

This connects to my question last time about the cancelled flight at the airport, and your response which I appreciate. If my flight is cancelled, it would indeed represent a challenge to me. I will not get onto a new flight or find a hotel for that night in the strange town by magic: indeed my thoughts will have to solve some problems to initiate action, and I may get stuck at certain steps. So when you say that I could "trust that all is taken care of..." it includes the fact that my brain will be my ally in taking appropriate steps as far as it can. It is only the commentary that "this shouldn't have happened, this is a disaster because of the missed event, you are anxious because you don't know yet where you will stay tonight" that is the problem. Without this commentary, there need not be panic or huge waves, as you say.

WHO IS THE VOICE TALKING TO? My reflexive answer was that it was talking to ME. But as I listened to the commentary as it came and went for a while, and it moved from topic to topic, it seems like it was talking to itself. The way it operates, it seems like it is constantly trying to prove that it is important, when it is not. Almost as if it fears that if it did not get attention it would die. In fact, "my" own general sense that I do not want to be anonymous, that I thirst for attention and admiration, seems to derive from this voice in the head. Being totally anonymous feels like a kind of death (and yet perhaps also a relief).

I am still unclear who this voice is talking to, since there is a listening to it taking place from a place that is not just a thought. You ask who is listening, and I don't see a "who", only that there is a listening (like in the exercise of yesterday). It does not make sense to me that this listening is "believing" the voice and its stories, since it does not seem to even be capable of belief. But something believes the voice, maybe just more thoughts?

Thanks.

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:51 pm

Good work. You are noticing that the voice in the head is talking to itself. Talking about problems and solutions and that this is not really helpful. You are noticing that the voice wants to be noticed, good stuff. So what does this voice want? You can ask this question, wait for the answer and write to me. What does it truly want the most?

The commentator thoughts and player thoughts as you call them, are still thoughts.
Now take a good look, do you know what is the next thought before it arrives?
Can you stop a thought from coming?
Where do the thoughts come from?
Is there a thinker?
Is I a thinker or a thought?
Can a thought think?

Here are some questions for you to play with, take each question and spend time with it.
Looking forward to your reply.

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:55 am

Hi Ilona. What arises most immediately when I pose the question to myself, "what does the voice in the head want?", is that it wants to be fully acknowledged and released. Like a ghost from long ago waiting to be recognized now and then set free to dissipate. But I am not sure. The voice in the head also wants to be believed, to be taken seriously. Finally, it wants its own survival, it always feels threatened. These are my best answers today, but this question is hard, I don't know if I hit the nail on the head.

I do not know what is the next thought before it arrives. I cannot stop it from coming, because I cannot even anticipate the thought. By the time it comes, however unpleasant, it is here and I cannot turn it back. I do not know where thoughts come from by direct experience. Like clouds, the winds and vapor of the external and internal worlds bring thoughts into existence. But some of them can be repetitive, coming in slight variations again and again. From my standard theoretical education, I would say thoughts arise in the brain in response to different stimuli through a complex chain of reactions. There may be ill health in the brain and the thoughts may reflect this. Both from direct experience and by "standard theoretical world view" of the physical universe including my body, there is no separate thinker of thoughts, only thoughts. The closest I can say is that "I" is not a separate thinker, but just the sensation of the thoughts themselves. This "I" has no deliberation over what thoughts to have. The universe gives rise to these thoughts, just as the whole world conspires to produce any particular cloud. A thought cannot think (that is, produce thoughts), anymore than a cloud makes other clouds. All this seems quite clear to me.

You say that both commentator thoughts and player thoughts are "still thoughts", and I am not sure if by "still" you imply that both are equally unnecessary and unhelpful? When I play tennis, I see that there are thoughts occasionally telling me where to place the ball, and sometimes I even manage to do what the thoughts suggest and maybe win the point. Such thoughts do seem necessary. There are times in the game where I react almost instantaneously, without premeditated thought, and these are the most enjoyable parts of sports, where the body just takes over as if it had a mind of its own. The thoughts in such cases are fused with the actions, rather than having a separate existence. In any case, these player thoughts just come up too, I do not control them, and it is the spontaneity of thought/action that makes the fun. Sorry if I digress from where you wanted me to go, but I want to clarify why the commentator thoughts and player thoughts seem so different to me, even if they are both just thoughts.

Thanks.

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:32 pm

Good work, thank you.
What arises most immediately when I pose the question to myself, "what does the voice in the head want?", is that it wants to be fully acknowledged and released. Like a ghost from long ago waiting to be recognized now and then set free to dissipate. But I am not sure. The voice in the head also wants to be believed, to be taken seriously. Finally, it wants its own survival, it always feels threatened. These are my best answers today, but this question is hard, I don't know if I hit the nail on the head.
It wants to be fully acknowledged and released and also wants to survive and be taken seriously. Here is what you can do. You can thank the voice for doing such a great job, for being here always as the best friend. And you can give the voice some attention, acknowledge it and honour it. Also ask what does it know for sure, 100% to be true.

What we are working with here is your own experience as it is. We can put the standard theoretical view on the side for now and purely look at what is actually happening. Let’s have a look again, where thoughts come from?
How they show up? Where do they go?
It’s not the correct answer I’m looking for but description of your own experience.

Then look, are all thoughts coming from the same place or there are special thoughts that come from a different place?

Write what feels true.
Love
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http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: looking for clarity

Postby arus7 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:18 am

Hi Ilona. Today, as difficult situations once again arose, there was an emotional drop followed by the voice in the head trying (again) to work out a "solution", saying that there really must be a solution if only I were wise or brave enough to see it and do it. I did not see it as "the voice in the head", but rather as the truth. In the end however I saw that I did not know anything new to do to resolve the difficult situations, and therefore had to look at the voice as just unhelpful thoughts rather than truth. Once I took the stand that I had been through this circular process many times before -- believing the voice in the head and trying to find "solutions" over and over without success -- I stopped, and turned to what you suggested.

Although it was initially difficult to make friends with the voice, that sounded like a hollow pretense given all the suffering associated with it, within a few minutes I was able to feel more friendly towards it. The entire issue is whether I believe the voice or not. When I do I feel lost and our discussions here make no sense. When I don't believe it this voice is of less consequence, I can feel it as the voice of a child wanting attention, and I am more willing to be friends with it. I will need to spend some more time watching the voice arise to see what it wants. I cannot see what this voice knows 100% for sure other than it being like an alarm bell. Just like standing on a sharp tack there is a recurring physical pain saying "do something!" until you get your foot off the tack, the voice in the head is an alarm bell too, saying "do something!" or "warning, warning!" with regard to other kinds of problems. The voice itself starts to speculate on what to do, but I do not think it knows. I will let the voice in the head arise without believing it or disbelieving it for now, and see what it is communicating.

I will put the theoretical view aside. Thoughts arise from external stimuli, sense perceptions, which react with memory and past conclusions, giving rise to new images or self-talk in rapid succession. The trains of thought eventually fizzle out and I am returned to noticing what is happening here and now. Something of the thought is remembered for next time. I don't see any special thoughts coming from a special place. I will have to keep looking at thoughts to get clearer answers to your questions.

Thanks.


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