understanding but not seeing

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cloudrift
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:02 pm

Re: understanding but not seeing

Postby cloudrift » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:23 am

Hey Michael

Sorry about the long delay, I only just saw your messages yesterday. There's nothing to report in any case. Nothing has changed, still in the same position. I keep looking but less and less often. So to be honest the hope has gone. Now it's just a feeling of "well I tried, maybe it's just not meant to be".

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cloudrift
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:02 pm

Re: understanding but not seeing

Postby cloudrift » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:27 am

Hey Michael

Sorry about the long delay, I only just saw your messages yesterday. There's nothing to report in any case. Nothing has changed, still in the same position. I keep looking but less and less often. So to be honest the hope has gone. Now it's just a feeling of "well I tried, maybe it's just not meant to be".

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MichaelD
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:21 pm

Re: understanding but not seeing

Postby MichaelD » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:02 pm

Hi Cloudrift,

I am sorry you feel like that. It takes focussed effort and a real desire to be free so it is up to the client.

You could try with another guide?

Have a think and get back to me about what you want to do. If you do make it an end then let's be completely clear and conscious about it. Even if you choose to end your inquiry now you are still free to return at any time in the future (which is quite common).

Please let me know what you want to do.

Thanks,

Michael.

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cloudrift
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:02 pm

Re: understanding but not seeing

Postby cloudrift » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:12 pm

Hi Michael

Thanks for what you said, I have been thinking and I can say the desire is there just as strong. So the problem is I am just stuck still at the same point. It doesn't feel as if any real shift has occurred. You have been very kind and patient so it would be shame to lose you as a guide. I am happy to try anything if you think it's for the best or could get me past the sticking point. Is it worth trying with someone else or shall we continue trying together? What does past experience with other people tell you is the best approach?

These difficulties are making me wonder if my brain is wired in such a way that I am locked more tightly than normal into these patterns?

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MichaelD
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Re: understanding but not seeing

Postby MichaelD » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:27 am

Hi Cloudrift,

Let's both re-read our conversation and then decide.

If I think I have missed something, or a new angle presents itself, then I can pursue that with you. If nothing like that occurs then I suggest you continue with another guide.

For you, if you slowly read through the dialogue seeing may occur.

I will get the chance to do this tomorrow as today is already quite full.

Best wishes,

Michael

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MichaelD
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Re: understanding but not seeing

Postby MichaelD » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:17 pm

Hi Cloudrift,

The only thing that struck me reading our conversation is that perhaps the problem lies with you believing thought more than direct experience.

Perhaps what you see in DE would have more impact if you freed yourself from your belief in thought?

DE is what is occuring - thought is then labelling, analysing, interpreting etc.

You can think about a glass of water. But can you drink it? How real is it? Focus on the ephemeral and empty nature of thought?

Michael

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cloudrift
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Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:02 pm

Re: understanding but not seeing

Postby cloudrift » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:07 pm

Hi Michael

You could be right. It feels like thoughts have impact and carry weight still no matter I know they are just thoughts. At the moment certain (but not all) thoughts arise they are all enveloping. Thus it feels like they are real because in that moment I can't see around them. This then leads to the conclusion that I haven't really seen because if I had seen then the thought would not be overwhelming in that moment. It would be context, known to be just a thought and therefore not important.

I read the whole discussion again twice and have been trying to be in the here and now. A couple of moments during reading it it felt like something was about to 'happen', like the penny was closer to dropping, but then this feeling receded.

How can I be free from my belief in thought? The best description of the problem I can come up with is what I mentioned above. Whenever there is a test by a little life event then the thoughts become all enveloping and all encompassing and connection with DE is lost. I guess that's why thoughts may seem more believable than DE because as soon as there is duress the brain reverts to thought and there is nothing outside those thoughts that can be found at that moment. So at some moments I can realise the ephemeral nature of thought then at others I lose the ability to do that and thought is all there seems to be.

Right now its completely obvious that thinking about a glass of water is totally unreal. Perhaps because it is not personal, it is impersonal and not related to the self. However I cannot seem to apply that same sense of unreality to thoughts about "myself" because something seizes control and gives such thoughts way more power than just considering a glass of water. So much power that in the moment they are irresistible.

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MichaelD
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Re: understanding but not seeing

Postby MichaelD » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:34 pm

Hi Cloudrift,

Sorry for the delay - unexpected events yersterday......

Thanks for such a thoughtful reply.

The best description of the problem I can come up with is what I mentioned above. Whenever there is a test by a little life event then the thoughts become all enveloping and all encompassing and connection with DE is lost. I guess that's why thoughts may seem more believable than DE because as soon as there is duress the brain reverts to thought and there is nothing outside those thoughts that can be found at that moment. So at some moments I can realise the ephemeral nature of thought then at others I lose the ability to do that and thought is all there seems to be.
Excellent awareness of what is going on.

As a practice you are going to need to try and stay with the body (sensation), and feeling, as much as possible. Still noticing thought observe what they are doing rather than becoming embroiled with them. (This is a core aspect of mindfulness practice).

When a challenge is coming towards you remind yourself that you still don't need to identify with thoughts entirely. So for example if you are at a meeting at work, or are likely to have a difficult conversation with someone, still try and feel your breathing. Try to keep it relaxed. If you are sitting feel your bum on the chair - if standing feel your feet on the ground etc.

The above and spending time in nature (thought is quieter because we feel happier, more deeply nourished). Try to meditate more - if you are able to you could try intensive meditation retreats.

I am sure you get the general direction I am pointing.

Practice spotting thoughts that are obviously untrue....thoughts about the past (just a distorterd recollection in the present)....thoughts about the future.....will it really be exactly like that!

The identification with thought will not end or be broken (even post gate) but you will find that you can weaken it.

Also you will notice that life lived more in the body and more in the heart is generally increasingly satisfying and enjoyable so to that extent you should be incentivised.

Hope some of this helps or strikes a chord.

Best wishes,

Michael


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