The non existent self

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MichaelD
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Re: The non existent self

Postby MichaelD » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:49 am

Hi Kan,

Ok good. I look forward to hearing about it.

Michael

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Kan
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Re: The non existent self

Postby Kan » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:13 am

Hi Michael,

Here's my experience with the boundary exercises:

When I do sight exercise - looking at an object or even the whole scene, trying to find the boundary, most times the no boundary is seen. Because when the question of where the boundary starts/ends is asked, the answer is nowhere. If I was to write a literary paragraph on this experience, it goes like this - Once the boundary question is asked and answered, the sense of 'I' comes out of the body and is hovering for a few moments behind it, and then it dissipates completely. But a few moments later, it's back - almost comes back sneakily if I had to put a word to it.

Similarly with sound. Most times, the no boundary can be seen. Again to put it in a literary paragraph - once the no boundary is seen, and since the eyes are closed, the no self feeling gets a bit physical. It's best described as - with no self realization, my heart skips a beat, there's a knot in my stomach. Even if we do away with these labels/phrases, there are physical sensations that occur with no self realization. The last time I did this exercise, the physical sensation was very strong and somehow this is correlated with how strong the no self realization was as well. But as with sight, the realization is momentary.

On that note, I spent some time thinking about why I can sort of see the no self in bursts, but it's not like the "one clear seeing" to dispel the belief that you say, like Christmas. I was at loss but maybe, maybe it could be due to a loss of identity with no self or being shell-less. Though these thoughts have appeared here and there during exercises, through direct experience they have been recognized as thoughts and understood as quality less and impact less. So it wouldn't seem to be hindrance, but perhaps it is, especially if they recur?

Thanks,
Kan

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MichaelD
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Re: The non existent self

Postby MichaelD » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:51 pm

Hi Kan,
When I do sight exercise - looking at an object or even the whole scene, trying to find the boundary, most times the no boundary is seen. Because when the question of where the boundary starts/ends is asked, the answer is nowhere.
Great!
Once the boundary question is asked and answered, the sense of 'I' comes out of the body and is hovering for a few moments behind it, and then it dissipates completely. But a few moments later, it's back - almost comes back sneakily if I had to put a word to it.
What EXACTLY is this sense of 'I' that comes out of the body and hovers above it?

With hearing once the no boundary is seen, and since the eyes are closed, the no self feeling gets a bit physical. It's best described as - with no self realization, my heart skips a beat, there's a knot in my stomach. Even if we do away with these labels/phrases, there are physical sensations that occur with no self realization.

Can you try this again please and relax / release the knot in the stomach. The clenching in the stomack is likely to be resistance.

:-)

Michael

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Kan
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Re: The non existent self

Postby Kan » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:09 pm

Hi Michael,
What EXACTLY is this sense of 'I' that comes out of the body and hovers above it?
Upon really looking at this, it's actually nothing. It's just a thought (a visual of me looking at the back of my head) - but is still just a thought. I'm going to continue doing the exercise so I can continue to identify and recognize it as just a thought.
Can you try this again please and relax / release the knot in the stomach. The clenching in the stomack is likely to be resistance.
That's interesting because I never saw it as resistance. Although the feeling is still there when I did this exercise, it's probably a bit lower. I believe since it's recognized as resistance it's kind of losing it's 'strength' by being identified as just a thought again. I want to continue doing these so I can really see it as that.

It's amazing how these sneaky thoughts are hidden in all these nooks and crannies :)

Thanks!
Kan

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MichaelD
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Re: The non existent self

Postby MichaelD » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:35 pm

Hi Kan,

Great.

Yes, carry on exploring for as long as it is fruitful and then report back please.

Michael

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Kan
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Re: The non existent self

Postby Kan » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:27 pm

Hi Michael,

No significant updates so far but it's going well! I think realizing that those physical feelings were resistance is pretty solid because so far I thought of them as enabling a realization. Also seeing it's still all thought has stayed with me as I do the boundary exercises.

I'm continuing to do the exercises and it does feel like more thought based aspects are being realized through this process.

Thanks!
Kan

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MichaelD
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Re: The non existent self

Postby MichaelD » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:53 pm

Hi Kan,

Great.

You could always do the thought excercises again :-)

Have a great weekend.

Michael.

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Kan
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Re: The non existent self

Postby Kan » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:00 am

Hi Michael,

All good! I was a bit busy traveling this week so couldn't spend much time on this. But definitely the resistance is being noticed more and the quality of seeing and understanding the no self is getting better - it's a bit hard to explain in words but the no self 'feels more real'.

There were some interesting direct experience questions that kind of shook the separate self construct further. I'm going to spend some more time on this and report next week! I want to talk about the 'one true seeing' then. I know its not a phase or a state, but am I truly seeing that?

Thanks,
Kan

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MichaelD
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Re: The non existent self

Postby MichaelD » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:36 am

Hi Kan,

kind of shook the separate self construct further.

Great. That is it. You are seeing 'the self' as a construct - and that is exactly what it is - a thought created story.


Remember there isn't an entity called 'the no self' - there is simply the absence of the self that we have assumed is there and is real when in fact when we look closely and carefully we see it isn't there.

Michael.

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Kan
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Re: The non existent self

Postby Kan » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:38 pm

Hi Michael,

All is well. I came home to my parents a few days ago after a year so have been pretty busy with them. If it works for you, can we give a break for a couple of weeks? I feel like I'm not getting time to really do any exercises or even think about it and I don't want to waste your time either. I am trying to meditate every day at the least so I don't lose momentum.

Thanks!
Kan

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MichaelD
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Re: The non existent self

Postby MichaelD » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:01 pm

Hi Kan,

Of course take a break if you need to, it is your inquiry so needs to follow your rhythms, though at the same time try to make looking a sort of habit.

Meditating will help. Especially noticing what stories thoughts are weaving...

Hope you get sorted at your parents soon.

Best wishes,

Michael

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MichaelD
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Re: The non existent self

Postby MichaelD » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:15 am

Hi Kan,

I am going away for about a week so unfortunately, I will be unable to respond to posts. Keep up the inquiry – remember the heart of the inquiry is simple:

You have a belief, an assumption, that a separate self exists, (but it doesn’t it is an illusion).

Your job is to find the self that you believe to be there running the show. But you won’t be able to. The penny will drop or there will be a moment of clear seeing; of non-duality.

:-)

Michael

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Kan
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Re: The non existent self

Postby Kan » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:14 am

Hi Michael,

Sounds good. I'll keep chugging along!

Thanks,
Aakanksha

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MichaelD
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Re: The non existent self

Postby MichaelD » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:17 pm

Hi Kan,

I am back now.

How is your inquiry progressing?

What are you looking at?

Write soon. Thanks.

Michael

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Kan
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Re: The non existent self

Postby Kan » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:36 am

Hi Michael,

I haven't been doing too much self inquiry but things are slowing down a bit here so I'm going to start doing boundary exercises. I am however meditating every day and although staying focused has been hard, there have been a couple of good sessions. The goal is to get into the habit for now and eventually get more and more focused :)

Also, now there is no feeling of sinking or knots in the stomach when the no boundary realization comes, but now I automatically take a deep breath. Hopefully that's not resistance also :)

Thanks,
Kan


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