Realizing Truth

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:18 pm

If you ask me what i'm looking for, i'm looking for what everyone is looking for, which is the reason why everyone does whatever everyone does. -Happiness.

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:10 pm

Ok, thanks. What is in the way of happiness?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:16 pm

The idea of 'i' and the 'wanting' of something.

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:52 pm

Ok, great. Now look at that wanting.. there is a feeling of this in the body. Feel it. Is there I that wants? Or this wanting is something that shows up? Is it your choice what wanting is seeking? Can you stop wanting? Try.
Are you doing the wanting? What is here without wanting? Where is this wanting occurring?

Meet that sensation, examine it and tell me, is there a feeler of sensation? Or just sensation?
Is sensation happening to the i?
Is I another sensation?

Describe what you learn.


Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:27 pm

I don't feel any desire/wanting in my body. Seems just like something abstract.
I can't stop wanting, nor can i choose what to want. It's something that happens by itself. It's me that wants, but if i managed to forget about me, it would just be there.
There's always a discomfort, something that makes my experience unsatisfying. We are never satisfied, we always want something or to get rid of something. I can notice that feeling in my body right now, the feeling of tiredness, dissatisfaction and dismotivation. (Today i feel a bit like this.) When i look and try to see if there is an 'i' experiencing this, it simply seems so... I'm not all that exists, and around me there are tons of other experiences that i'm not experiencing. So yes, it appears to me there's an I.

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:40 pm

You say it seems so. But take a look, is there? What is behind that wanting?

And of course you are not all that exists! There is no you to be all. No I that needs or can become anything. Zero. It’s other way round. There is everything expressing as perceiving and there is knowing of what is going on.

If using sky as metaphor, there is sky and there are clouds in the space called sky. A cloud cannot become the sky. Sky is what is beyond cloud, it includes all clouds, nice fluffy ones and dark stormy clouds.

If sky is knowing, being aware, being, noticing, witnessing and cloud is a thought, feeling, sensation, emotion, wanting... what do you see?
Where is the i? Is there I? Is it i that knows or I is known?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:49 pm

Well... looking at it that way, the i is just an idea, it doesn't exist objectively, it is not that which knows but just another thing known or perceived. All there is is awareness and stuff this awareness perceives. Awareness is the true I.

However... the awareness is fragmented. As i said, there are tons of experiences but my perception of them is very limited. Maybe there is no 'i' (just the idea of it), but awareness is divided into a infinitude of true 'Is'.

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:17 pm

Are you aware now?
When are you not aware?
When is it not now?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:24 am

I'm always aware of course, except perhaps in situations such as deep sleep or if i faint or get into a coma... but perhaps even in those situations i'm aware, but don't remember it afterwards.

The past doesn't exist anymore, and the future doesn't exist yet. So it's always now.

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:07 pm

You say that awareness is true I. Well let’s look closer. Awareness is. Being aware is. Being is.
Connect that to the sense of being, aliveness. Does this need an identity? What does identity stick to?

Yes, it’s always now. Images about past and future show up and there is knowing of them in the now.
Here now, is there I that knows? Is there I that is aware? What is true in experience?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:00 pm

I don't think awareness needs an identity, it can exist without it, totally not having that sense of identity present within its perception. Identity sticks suffering to it, as far as i understand. If there was no identity things would just happen, happen to no one, and thus no one would suffer.

I don't think there is an I that is aware and knows, after our last message exchanges i think i understood this. It's the opposite: there's just awareness experiencing and knowing an 'I'. However, as you ask, i think this 'I' is not a true experience, but just an imaginary one, like the past and the future. True experience are things that come to perception, emotions, images, thoughts, sensations, all the rest are just phantoms constructed by the thinking mind, and we take them as real despite the fact that they aren't.

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:04 pm

Nice! This resonates.

So is there I that awakens?
Is there a gate to cross?

What’s your view on this now?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:26 pm

No, the I never awakens nor is any gate crossed. All that happens is that awareness notices that the I doesn't exist. It's not the I that does it nor is the I changed, it happens in awareness.

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:18 pm

I've been thinking and meditating...

What is real anyway? Why is a sensation real and the idea of I not? All that we experience, be it a sensation, a perception, or on the other hand, an idea about I, a comparison, a memory about the past, an imagination about the future, seems to be real, because for me, all that is real is what i experience. How do i even know that people around me are real, that the world around me is real? I only know myself and my experience. "I think therefor i am" is a good approximation of what i mean...
Even the idea that there is no I is based on a perception, a perception just like the perception of the idea that there is an I.

Maybe darkness is real in itself... There are indeed traditions that say so. It's intrinsically real, rather than just the absence of light. This makes sense to me, because indeed, all that i experience is real from my perspective, from the perspective of my awareness.

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:49 pm

Look this way, being is real. It’s undeniable. It’s not changing. Everything else is a movent of energy as particular form and function, ever changing,
Find the sense of being in experience. Knowing that I am. Aliveness. This is. Unchanging and always here.
Emotions, thoughts, perceptions, sensations, states, understandings, events, situations etc come and go.

Like images on a screen, or clouds in the sky,

Screen, sky = spaciousness of being.


What do you notice?
Is there spaciousness
or more like contraction?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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