Realizing Truth

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:19 am

Feeling happy and seeing i have the possibilities of life open to me. A kind of more present awareness... I have felt this in the past; like being in the moment, connected with people and things around me, being more alive than i am now, feeling grounded, awake. Detachment from the issues of life; if i see everything as just a movie, bad things won't have the same impact in me, i'll go on ok with everything, while at the same time i move in the movie and enjoy it. I think seeing life and the world like this will offer tremendous freedom, i won't be a slave to the pains, preoccupations, and attachments of it.

I also have some confusions about the possible paths and choices ahead... You may explain this to me so that it is all sorted out perhaps.
There are paths where the ego is not ditched but one sees truth at the same time, apparently. In the Western Tradition and in some Eastern Traditions there is something generally called the Left Hand Path, where a part of the illusion is maintained while realization also happens. In the end a solar-lunar form of the 'rainbow body' is attained, instead of just a solar one. I don't know what it means to have an ego and realization at the same time, some describe it as the 'serpent swallowing the sun' or as the 'drop of water absorbing the ocean' instead of the 'drop of water dissolving in the ocean'. "There is a part of me that is not divine, but all of the divine is me". I am still registered in a mystical order of this type, but felt like seeking a 'direct path'. But i still have attachment to these descriptions and goal which i don't understand well, and i see the change in mindset i'm seeking as an help, acceleration, or facilitator of it.


You already have an idea that this is just a dream/movie... you are trying to see this as that. What is here without this idea? Is there reality?

Awareness is here without that idea.
I think there is an absolute reality, from my perspective it seems to be awareness itself. But awareness can't help but see everything within it as real. It can't look just at itself and forget its contents, wherever it is, the contents are also there. (As you made me notice; There is no awareness separated from things happening).

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:25 pm

Feeling happy and seeing i have the possibilities of life open to me. A kind of more present awareness... I have felt this in the past; like being in the moment, connected with people and things around me, being more alive than i am now, feeling grounded, awake. Detachment from the issues of life; if i see everything as just a movie, bad things won't have the same impact in me, i'll go on ok with everything, while at the same time i move in the movie and enjoy it. I think seeing life and the world like this will offer tremendous freedom, i won't be a slave to the pains, preoccupations, and attachments of it.
It’s not about a happy feeling, not about a state, not about happy ever after. It’s about knowing that all states come and go all emotions come and go, no state is permanent. You are looking for a fairy tale. You don’t get detached from things that happen in life, there is no you to attach nor detach. Things happen. Life goes on. Shit happen, good stuff happens, there is no one that life happens to. Freedom is not FROM feeling and living life, but freedom is TO feel everything, to feel all emotions fully, openly in any intensity that they come. If it’s sadness here, then freedom is to feel that sadness, without judging it as wrong or unwanted. All the pains that are not healed yet have to come up, be met and healed. There is no magic pill to get all the pains away.

What you are expecting is in the way of meeting what is as it is. So don’t look FOR look AT.
And put all the theories and philosophies on the side, they are not helpful. Forget all that you think you know and all these budhist sayings. Don’t try to figure it out what they mean, because the answer is not there. The answer is in your own experience, it’s unconceptual.

Are you willing and ready to see that all you believe is not it? All that knowledge gathered from someone else has to go. Start fresh. Start looking in your own experience.

What is here underneath all thinking?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:08 am

Are you willing and ready to see that all you believe is not it? All that knowledge gathered from someone else has to go. Start fresh. Start looking in your own experience.

Sure, i don't presume i am holder of any absolute knowledge. I'm not dogmatic and i assume i don't know virtually anything for sure.

What is here underneath all thinking?

Awareness, it seems.


I'm ok about ditching all those expectations. But i'm curious... in that case, what can i expect of positive from all this, if anything? I think all actions we do as human beings are done on the basis of seeking happiness (even though sometimes we stupidly do bad things thinking they will bring us a positive result), i imagine no one came here to this site other than for that ultimate reason, because that's the only ultimate motivation we have as human beings... am i wrong?

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:19 pm

Yes, there is seeking pleasure and avoiding pain. That’s natural.
And there is also wanting truth no matter what, for the love of truth. Even if it’s not giving pleasure or takes away the pain.

So ask this, do you want the truth or benefits?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:47 pm

To be sincere i don't feel extremely attracted to truth just in and of itself, and i think that if someone wants to know something ("just for the sake of knowledge/knowing"), that's because that's a pleasure itself.

But yeah, i want to know the truth, i guess.

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:14 pm

That sounds very vague. Therefore you are going in circles, waiting for some magical transformation.

Truth is not hidden. It’s plain obvious and ordinary. Nothing to gain. No one to benefit. Just truth.
When you really want this, it reveals itself.

It’s not what you expect or hope for. It’s what is as it is.

The name of your thread :)

So ask this- do you want the truth no matter what? Or do you just guess that you may like it? See the difference?

Then ask this- are you ready to know the truth?

What would be lost if there really is no separate self at all?


Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:22 pm

So ask this- do you want the truth no matter what? Or do you just guess that you may like it? See the difference?

I want to say yes, but i'm not sure i would be sincere with you and me by saying so.

Then ask this- are you ready to know the truth?

Yes, i think i am.

What would be lost if there really is no separate self at all?

A fantasy, a lie, illusion.
I guess truth is good in itself, yes.

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:15 pm

When you feel sincere, read the whole thread from the start, work with pointers given to you and see this for yourself.
The best advise I got was this
Sit down, shut up and figure what is truth until you know.

It worked.

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:52 pm

Alright.

Thanks for your time and help Ilona.

All the best. :)

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:58 pm

You are welcome.
You have all the pointers. Just do the math.
Write again when you are ready to continue.

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:43 pm

Good night Ilona. :)

I didn't forget about all this, despite having delayed the rereading and focus into this again.

I have reread everything, relaxed a bit while looking around, and the thought/understanding came to my mind that all those thoughts, labelings and complexity can be put aside, and i can just notice spaciousness, awareness and things happening.
I think i can forget about the 'I' for a few moments sometimes...

I don't know if this is all that there is to be seen through your help or if there is anything more.
In any case, i can say i have no expectations at all about all this now, and i thank you anyway for your time and guidance in this. :)

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:36 am

Wonderful, thank you. Yes, sense of being is here. Thought I can come and go, just like any other thought.
It’s very simple. Life is flowing freely, by itself. Thoughts come up and go, feelings come and go. Colours, sounds, sensations come and go. Knowing that you are aware remains unchanged.

Can you tell me, how do you see free will and choice?


Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:57 pm

Hi, nice to hear from you again. :)

Sure. I don't know if this is a positive way of seeing things, perhaps not, but i truly believe, since it seems very clear to me, that free will and choice are illusions.
Whenever we make a choice, we may believe it was us that decided it, but if we look deeper, it was a result of the circumstances at the moment and our current nature or state.
Everything in the Universe happens in a sequence of causes and effects, nothing happens out of nothing. When someone makes a choice, if we follow the chain of events to its origin, we won't find that person, but the primordial origin of all action. We may call it Big Bang, God, or whatever.

This is my view on it...

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Ilona
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Ilona » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:04 am

Nice, thank you!
How is the seeking energy, still strong or has it diminished? Is there a burning question? Or all is clear?
What is different since we started this conversation in normal everyday living?
What hasn’t changed?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Nicodemus
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Re: Realizing Truth

Postby Nicodemus » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:10 pm

When it comes to seeking something through this talk, the energy of seeking is null or almost null.
However I'm seeking strongly other stuff, and there is a feeling of dissatisfaction and frustrated ambition.
I think I understood the stuff you tried to show me since we started the conversation, but that stuff is not very present in my mind now.
In daily life things are the same since we started talking. Everything hasn't changed, as far as I can notice.


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