who else is ready to look?

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
martyepstein
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 pm

who else is ready to look?

Postby martyepstein » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:09 am

I am ready. My name is Marty. I've been wanting this for a long time. Thank you.

User avatar
martyepstein
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby martyepstein » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:14 am

There is no mellon. it existed in my mind weight, texture, color, smell, temperature.When I opened my eyes it was gone.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 6020
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Mexico
Contact:

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:20 am

Hi Marty :)
Thanks for joining in.
We work one on one, which means one thread only and no interruptions. I see you are ready, great, so we can work together, that's why I moved your post to a new thread.

You say that there is no melon, yes, but then you say that when you opened your eyes it was gone. Is this correct?
I'd say it never existed.
It's very similar with the feeling of self.

But, we have to start from the beginning and i'll ask you to introduse yourself. :)
Just write about your way till now and what do you expect from
This conversation.
:)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
martyepstein
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby martyepstein » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:04 am

Thank you for your response. I have been wanting clarity and freedom for a long time. I am 63 and I can go back to when I was about 10 years old looking in a mirror and asking "who am I". I saw that I was not the body and I couldn't go further. My journey has been this looking that seems to hit a wall. I have meditated for many years, studied wisdom texts in Sanskrit, and so many other paths to find this freedom.

I think I see and then I am not sure if I am imagining my experience or what is real. As I went through the exercises on your blog I experienced a clarity of seeing my thoughts. I somehow hit a wall. I am caught between what is true and what i think. I hope this is clear. Should I wait for a response? I am not sure on when to expect a response or frequency. I am also aware that it is pretty late or very early on your side of the world.

Thank you for offering this and I can't believe it is really happening. I feel like I am about to go on a roller coaster.

Marty

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 6020
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Mexico
Contact:

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:15 am

Welcome to the rabbit hole :)) this is where it gets interesting.

Glad you read my blog and got to examine thoughts. What did you find? Is there a thinker? Is there controll over thoughts, where do they come from.

And please make a list of all your expectations. What do you expect that seeing truth is like? Wha do you want it to be like?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
martyepstein
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby martyepstein » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:49 pm

Good Morning Ilona,

Thank you for your questions.

I cannot find a thinker. So the answer is 'no'. I cannot control my thoughts. They seem to materialize and then move through. As I watched them while laying in bed last night I found it interesting to see them arise and move. At times I felt an attachment to them and a clenching or response.

I expect seeing the truth is like:
- being clear all the time
- not experiencing stress or if experienced I will be free in moments
- I will not be anxious
- I will be at peace
- I will not judge and have patience especially with those closest to me

I want the truth to be like:
- a place of ease and clarity
- acceptance of myself and others
- happy, happy, happy
- to be in a state of compassion

Ilona, as I go through this list what is interesting I am finding much of this in my life already. Mmmm! In many ways I feel like I am there and yet I am believing that I have to work to get there. I move back to the place of questioning if I am making this up or is it real.

Loving that you are there to ask me questions.

<3
Marty

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 6020
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Mexico
Contact:

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:41 pm

I expect seeing the truth is like:
- being clear all the time
- not experiencing stress or if experienced I will be free in moments
- I will not be anxious
- I will be at peace
- I will not judge and have patience especially with those closest to me

I want the truth to be like:
- a place of ease and clarity
- acceptance of myself and others
- happy, happy, happy
- to be in a state of compassion

These are pretty unrealistic expectations. Seeing truth of no separate self does not bring you 24/7 peace and clarity, happy ever after is a magical thinking of happy endings in fairy tales. It's not like this. Seems like you expect that once the truth is seen, there won't be any more clouds in the sky, no more thunderstorms, just pure sunshine. The sun is shining already all the time. The clouds come and go. But after seeing the truth there is deep knowing that cloud is just that and nothing is permanent. Bliss, peace, oneness are states. They come and go.
What opens up is feeling of freedom to experience, not from experience. So there still be anger and fear, anxiousness and sadness and freedom to experience that. In other words, clouds and thunder is not bad. It just is. Being human includes all spectrum of experience. It's not that you will cease to be a human.

At this step you have to leave your expectations and take a fresh look. We will come back to them later. For now, they can rest here.

Tell me, what comes up if you let this thought in-
There is no entity behind word me, no self at all, no controller, no manager, no witness, no observer, none as in zero.

Write all what surfaces here.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
martyepstein
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby martyepstein » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:36 pm

[quote][/quote]Tell me, what comes up if you let this thought in-
There is no entity behind word me, no self at all, no controller, no manager, no witness, no observer, none as in zero.


I noticed as soon as I read this I felt a thrill of delight and excitement - a sense of freedom; and then a clenching in my gut. There is a momentary panic that nothing is there and who is running the show? How will I get to my appointments? What about my commitments? I want to be in place when you respond? Something must be controlling that? I will be heading to the City at 2pm how will that take place without a controller, manager. I put an appointment in my calendar (how is that taking place w/o a manager?), more often than not the item is met as it is noted - something must be controlling that, isn't it?

This morning I was listening to music and watching the birds in trees against a blue sky. I noticed how happy and peaceful and delighted I was. Something observed that, no?

I am looking to locate this observer and I center my attention in an unspecific place in my head. Sometimes it seems in my head and other times it is circling around outside my head. This leads to agitation.

Ilona, as I sit with the suggested thought you mentioned I feel more fear than I expected. I notice a deep fear that if I don't do it, it won't be done. How can I trust it (not sure what 'it' is other than minus 'me')? I move to a place of no "me" and see chaos, no order, my life being such that I am a blob, lying on the floor with no motivation, no purpose ... and then something, a thought, comes in and says it isn't so. So here I am, the ping pong ball, vacillating between the extremes.

I hope this isn't more than you asked for - another thought, am I doing the right thing?

M

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 6020
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Mexico
Contact:

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:23 pm

Yes, absolutely, something is in control, making choices, reacting to environment, moving and organising -- brain! Ha.
Every living being has got brain. It's an amazing creation. But is there a me/ I that is in charge of the brain?
Can you look up and see if brain needs a manager.
:)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
martyepstein
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby martyepstein » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:15 pm

The brain is the manager - then there is a me commenting. It is not making these choices there are the choices appearing and then I/me say it is time to do it. It is happening and then I/me agree or disagree. It is like me/ I is a puppet and it is getting its intelligence from the puppet master. I keep falling back into forgetting. How do I solidify this understanding?

You said earlier about us being human:
Being human includes all spectrum of experience. It's not that you will cease to be a human.
. What is it that is human? If you find this question a diversion from our work, we can shelve it.

<3

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 6020
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Mexico
Contact:

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:17 pm

And it is not you that is commenting. The naration is an automatic process.
Look around the room slowly. Notice how once something comes into focus, the labelling kicks in. Some commenting is just names of things or qualities, other point to memories and story starts running you want it or not.

If it was you narrating, would you be able to switch it off at will? Can you? Can you know what next thought gonna be?
Take a look and report what you find.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
martyepstein
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby martyepstein » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:00 am

The labeling is instant, immediate - the eye hits - it's a book, it's a picture, the cat just jumped off my lap. There is a receipt, I should have cashed it. It doesn't stop. There are words even before they are spoken in mind. I looked at a group of things and whoosh there were sounds, not even words that labeled them.

I am also sensing the heat from the radiator and that is commented on first in awareness, then a word "warm" then it is from the radiator. I look out my window and before i know it there is a commentary on what comes through the eyes. It seems ceaseless.

Today i was looking at a forest - the labeling kept moving - branches, trees, wind blowing branches - on and on - I could not drop the labeling - I couldn't see it all as one as you spoke about in your blog. I feel stuck in the labeling.

M

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 6020
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Mexico
Contact:

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:09 am

Don't worry, we get there, there are a few pieces of puzzle and once you get them all the big picture comes into focus. So let's not jump ahead and go through each step properly. The last post had a few questions, please answer them precisely and honestly as you see it.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
martyepstein
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby martyepstein » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:34 am

If it was you narrating, would you be able to switch it off at will? Can you? Can you know what next thought gonna be?
Take a look and report what you find
.
If it was me i could stop it at will. I cannot stop it at will. It happens by itself. I do not know what the next thought is going to be.

As I look, there is labeling. There is a thought to look left, I look left and there is a label and by label I mean calling it something either silently or instantly with a word. I just noticed my eyes moving left without a thought then my eyes moved to the right, I didn't tell it to, it just did. Then a pop message appeared on my screen, it just happened. My eyes moved to a calendar and then a label. Is this what you were requesting I do?

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 6020
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Mexico
Contact:

Re: who else is ready to look?

Postby Ilona » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:36 am

Good good, yes. Now look and tell me, where do the thoughts come from?
Can a thought itself think? Is there a thinker?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests