what I am looking not to find

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Andrei
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Andrei » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:07 am

But whether they are "mine" vs. "me" vs. something else, I don't know yet.
If it's "yours" how did you create it, how did you "grow" it?

As to what the body does... get up… walk slowly… is there a controller that controls walking? Or is there just walking?

Basically what I'm asking is whether there's a "you" that has anything to do with what the body is (or is not) or what the body does.

Sometimes it seems fairly obvious that thoughts arise spontaneously, and yet there's still no seeing.
There's still a few things we haven't talked about yet. Maybe those will show where the blockage lies.
In the meantime keep looking to see what is it that feels personal, where is this idea of an "I" coming from.

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Aphorism8
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Aphorism8 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:58 pm

No. There's no awareness of initiating the walking. Just a body walking, while thoughts arise and various sounds and sensations are noticed. But we say "I am walking," "I walked," etc. I-language like that should only be a convenient way of communicating, but it has to be part of what props up the notion of an I.

I will keep looking to try to see what feels personal and where the idea of an I is coming from.

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Andrei
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Andrei » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:23 pm

In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience?
Is there a watcher separate from the seen?

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Aphorism8
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Aphorism8 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:49 pm

No certainty here, but I would have to say that any so-called "seer" and the seen always appear at the same time.

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Andrei
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Andrei » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:24 pm

No certainty here, but I would have to say that any so-called "seer" and the seen always appear at the same time.
Try not to complicate things by looking for absolute proof. That seems awfully like what would the mind want.
Simply watch. Is there seeing just happening? :)

What about the platform on which things happen, call it mind-screen, call it awareness, etc. Is that a deeper level of the "self" or is something else, maybe even just another bodily function?

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Aphorism8
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Aphorism8 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:08 pm

Wow, what is awareness? That's a big question. Need to stay with that a while.

While walking slowly (to your early question), I find there is a "viewpoint" or "window" that has the torso and limbs always present (when looking downward), along with whatever is appearing (floor, car, etc.). There's some sort of awareness of what is seen.

Is there something that can be called a seer or knower? I can't answer definitively. There seems to be a sense of being a particular "viewpoint," or at least there being a particular "localized" seeing of whatever is seen.

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Andrei
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Andrei » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:13 pm

s there something that can be called a seer or knower? I can't answer definitively. There seems to be a sense of being a particular "viewpoint," or at least there being a particular "localized" seeing of whatever is seen.
In other words, awareness? ;)

Looks like finding out what awareness is might be the last piece of the puzzle for you.
Stay with it. Take your time.

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Aphorism8
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Aphorism8 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:41 pm

Will do. I'm happy to have some momentum, even if it feels like I still don't know jack.

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Aphorism8
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Aphorism8 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:03 pm

It seems difficult, I have to admit. Trying to just look, it seems like the effort to be aware of awareness just leads to drowning in a flood of mental objects!

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Andrei
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Andrei » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:25 pm

How can one be aware of awareness? You're either aware or you're not. There is no effort involved. It's natural to lose focus and get back into mind-mode every now and then and start weaving stories again but if you're speaking about "drowning" into them then maybe it's not being aware that which you're doing? Or are we speaking about different things when we mean "awareness"?
Do explain me what happens when you're doing it, all the steps involved.

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Aphorism8
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Aphorism8 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:20 pm

I think what it is is not knowing "how" to do the looking needed to clearly see that there is no self. In the absence of that clarity, I fall to a sort of "awareness watching awareness" "technique," which is another way some speak of this endeavor. Tell me, in your words, how to do the looking.

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Andrei
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Andrei » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:22 pm

Ok. I asked you before if there's a watcher separated from the seen and you told me that they appear at the same time. I took that as you were clear that watching is just happening. In that case there is nobody being aware of awareness. Awareness simply happens as well.
You are not aware of a "you" being aware. That is not even possible.
You are just aware, aka awareness happens.
Does that make more sense?

I fall to a sort of "awareness watching awareness" "technique
How do you do that? To me it doesnt seem possible for that to happen. Would that be like a double awareness? :D
To me it just looks like a mind game. Your mind takes something and builds a story around it: There's an Awarer (new English word right there) being aware --> "I" am the Awarer so I am a self independent than the others. --> "I" am!
Would that cut it?

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Aphorism8
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Aphorism8 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:21 pm

I guess I just don't know anything with certainty.

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Aphorism8
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Aphorism8 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:58 am

From continued looking I can report that even though I am struggling to clearly articulate what the nonexistent self is (isn't? How can something nonexistent be anything anyway? :) ), I am not finding anything I can say a distinct "I."

That being said, I feel like there must be some lingering illusion, misperception, etc., because there hasn't been anything "decisive," and things don't feel any different.

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Andrei
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Re: what I am looking not to find

Postby Andrei » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:21 pm

You seem to be stuck at the awareness level so you probably won't get anywhere until you fix that one. You already know what the problem is. You know what you need to look at - that if you want to get anywhere.
I gave you a few pointers below. Have you actually tried any of it?


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