Could I have guide Sarah 7

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MattP
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Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby MattP » Fri May 13, 2016 12:56 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:

I was introduced to Liberation Unleashed by a guide and absolutely loved it. been spiritually seeking for about 5 years and finally had a realisation with LU

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:

To join a community with other realised people and deepen my own relaisation

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:

Was brought up in fundamentalist Christianity so spirituality has always been part of my life but over last 5 years, through watching Youtube, discovered there was something bigger to be seen.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). : 10

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Sarah7
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby Sarah7 » Fri May 13, 2016 5:36 pm

Hi Matt!
So I know you have done some of this already. So bear with me. Ok!

How do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'?

Is there a place where the 'self' resides?

Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does?

In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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MattP
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby MattP » Fri May 13, 2016 6:19 pm

Hey Sarah, thanks for reply, this is really cool.

I see the I as a thought that arises like other thoughts. There is no I making this I thought arise, otherwise that would be a thought too haha, it just happens on it's own, by grace you could say.

The sense of self is hanging around around most of the time, although now somehow I can see that it's like an optical illusion rather than an actual reality. This sense of self doesn't think because it's just a thought and thoughts don't think!

I know this sounds like a cliche but I can see that the sense of self is happening within consciousness just like everything else, trees, sounds, smells etc. This is quite a new level of realisation that I have had just recently

The only thing that is permanent is consciousness itself. Even the thought of realisation is temporary, but somehow its known that even the forgetting of realisation is just happening within consciousness

The real breakthrough moments have come through LU, you guys rock and I'm so happy to join this movement, you have all genuinely changed my life with what you have done here and have changed my experience of intense suffering. I'm just SO looking forward to this realisation opening and deepening more

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Sarah7
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby Sarah7 » Sat May 14, 2016 9:38 am

Hey Matt
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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MattP
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby MattP » Sat May 14, 2016 2:05 pm

Hmmmm I'm not sure I know what the first question means; I have never thought about that. I can see the body arises just like every else, sensations appear to happen in the body but if I contemplate it a little I can see sensation actually happens in the same awareness that the body arises from

No the self cannot experience senses because the self is just a thought

No there is only an I thought. The i thought is separate in a sense, but it's not a "self"

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Sarah7
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby Sarah7 » Sun May 15, 2016 11:13 am

And what about being separate from experience, e.g. through seeing or hearing etc? Is there a feeling of separation?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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MattP
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby MattP » Sun May 15, 2016 4:24 pm

I would say both separation and non seperation are experienced at different times (mostly separation), but when i look I can see there's no one there experiencing those temporary feelings/thoughts, they're just arising on there own. It's all a bit new for me so probably needs a lot more deepening

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Sarah7
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby Sarah7 » Mon May 16, 2016 6:05 pm

Hey Matt
Is there doubt or un-clarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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MattP
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby MattP » Tue May 17, 2016 12:13 am

No doubt. I can see the self is an illusion. Best way I can describe it is its like that famous square illusion... You have 4 circles cut into and it makes it look like there's a square but the square isnt there. Somehow all our thoughts and feelings produce this feeling of self but it's just an illusion... when you look for it, it's just not there, only the thoughts and feelings themselves

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Sarah7
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby Sarah7 » Tue May 17, 2016 6:09 pm

So then Matt
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Anything to add?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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MattP
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby MattP » Fri May 20, 2016 8:02 am

There is no I and never has been
The I is a thought that arises like every other thought, it's a thought that says "I am me" but it can be looked at which means it's not me, it's a thought.
It's been incredibly liberating to see this for me. Suffering has been a huge issue in my life and just this simple seeing has released me from much of it. Since the beginning of this chat and our previous one a lot of suffering emptied out, for some reason that took a process to go through. There's also slowly been a sense that I am being lived, if that makes sense?
I was talking to a guide and said sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't, they then said "who gets it and doesn't get it?", and then showed me there's no one there to get it or not get it. This realisation has stuck but has also deepened.
No I don't decide or choose anything and never have
I don't make things happen. Sometimes there is the sense of choice or submitting to this but ultimately that is happening, it's not "I" doing it.
Anything to Add? Erm just thanks a bunch to all of you, I think you are saving lives and giving hope here

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Sarah7
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby Sarah7 » Sat May 21, 2016 6:08 pm

Hi Matt
One question for you.
Please describe to somebody who hasn't heard about any of this how the seeing through the illusion of self is experienced, either the moment or process, and how it feels. Was there something like a final push to see?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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MattP
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby MattP » Sun May 22, 2016 12:48 am

Hi Sarah, sorry not sure I'm understanding the question... do you want me to describe it to someone outside of this forum? Cheers

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Sarah7
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby Sarah7 » Sun May 22, 2016 7:10 am

Sorry yes, describe it to me as if you were telling someone else. Ok?
hugs S xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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MattP
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Re: Could I have guide Sarah 7

Postby MattP » Sun May 22, 2016 11:45 am

I would say something like... When you look for a separate self as some sort of entity or thing, you can't find it. All you find are thoughts of a separate self, and you are not a thought. When you look for a thing or entity making choices, you only find things happening automatically.
It's feels paradoxically stunning and completely normal at the same time. This is because nothing changes at all, everything goes on exactly the same as before and yet it's seen there is no doer doing it, no "I" controlling any of it. The I is seen as an illusion sitting there in what is actually just an automatic functioning. In one way it's an anti climax because life is the same, but at the same time there is a wonderful sense of freedom here now


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