Request for guide

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Anihera
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Request for guide

Postby Anihera » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:29 am

What brings me here:
LU intention resonates with a deep love of inquiry here.

Background:
Disillusioned with what it seemed life had to offer by 16 i.e 'there must be more than this' shortly after coming across teachings which spoke directly to and filled the seeker in me .. leading into many years of meditation and a quest for enlightenment ever since. Great love and appreciation of truth and speakers of truth ever since and still percolating at 50 :-).

Expectations:
um, open honest heartfelt generous expressions of enquiry and support to keep looking in at whats here until the looking and the looker are not separate

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Sarah7
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Sarah7 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:14 pm

Hi Anihera
Is this what you want to be called? Or Ani? Or something else????? Im Sarah and Id be happy to speak with you.
How did you come to find us? Have you looked around the site? You know what we do here?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Anihera
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Anihera » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:34 pm

Hi Sarah, thanks for your reply.
Yes, Anihera is what Id like to be called thanks.
Im part of a small group of lovers of truth who have been meeting
for seven or so years here in NZ.
One of my friends there found Lori ann Lothians blog which I checked out.
I listened to a media clip there and it mentioned LU and I felt it would be
so great to have support to finally bring everything home. I really want that so much,
its a deep longing.
So, I think I have an idea of what you do here, but
I'll have more of a look round after my reply to you.
Many thanks again Sarah - really grateful & looking forward to our contacts.
Anihera xx

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Sarah7
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Sarah7 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:26 am

Hi Anihera
Ill wait till you've had a chance to look then. Just post when your ready to continue! OK.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Anihera
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Anihera » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:24 am

Hi Sarah,
It's been a few weeks... I've been reading through some of the dialogues in Gateless Gatecrashers - appreciating the transcripts very much. I've also been working to consider that the existence of any 'I' is just a false belief. 'I' love this for it's simplicity having enquired into automatic beliefs at other times - having them disappear - I feel excitement and encouragement that 'I' too can actually definitely once and for all be seen through. Reading the evidence of others shows it can... and I am ready and would really appreciate your help please. Thanks Sarah - looking forward to hearing from you, Anihera

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Sarah7
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Sarah7 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:27 am

Hi Anihera
Lovely to hear from you!
House keeping first:
In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:
1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send? Ok.

Lets get going then!
How do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'?

For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?

Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?

Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does?

In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Anihera
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Anihera » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:28 am

It seems to arise out of nowhere. It seems to exist with thoughts. It does not have a form. It seems invisible, yet it is able to look at, focus on, give attention to things like answering these questions or looking at what's present.

The 'I' that I think is real is very certain that it does exist – it's like it's a given and somehow it is just unquestionably true.

It can come when called without fail, but does not seem fixed or permanent.

It's a relief when it is not here, but it attends as soon as it is looked or asked for.

It is not in the middle of experiences, but it can look into, focus on and direct attention to experiences that are happening.

It does not have shape, colour or texture – it seems old. It's tiring.

It seems like it is a doer and an authority on what is to be done not the owner, but the boss. It is like a strong convincing knowledgeable authority - bossy and directive – it seems risky to ignore it or stop following it's instructions. Some beliefs come with it such as 'I can't just do nothing' and ''nothing will happen if 'I' stops'... As I put attention on stopping... tiredness comes physically... there's a restfulness, but also a thought that this can't be allowed for long.

'I' does seem to decide, choose, act, do and control
Perspective seems to shift a lot, so it's hard to see what's what for real.

If attention is focussed intensely into the now, I does not seem to exist, just a looking or a seeing or a tiredness or a resting or a typing...

I can't find it's residence. It's not inside or outside the body as a whole.
When looked for – I can't find it – if I had to say somewhere I would say it resides in the mind – it seems like it is part of the mind which, from intellect I'd say is in the brain.

When I am 'outside the present moment i.e. Attention not in the present, but in thoughts ...
everything in the world seems to exist .... If I'm in the present moment, then I can't find anything
outside it unless I go into thoughts again.

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Sarah7
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Sarah7 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:29 am

Hi Anihera
Lovely start. Just a reminder - I know you have followed several dialogues on the site. So please, make sure you are answering from your own direct experience, not what you think I want to hear. OK. :)

Now I want you to look during your day at how labelling happens. See if you can catch ‘I’, ‘I’m’, ‘me’, ‘my’, ‘mine’, ‘I’ve’, etc and how often. See if you can see what you apply it too. Is it applied to doing, thinking etc? Is it all the time, most of the time? Is it like a commentary or like an ownership? Can you see where and when it labels - before, during or after?

If you say ‘my money’ and compare it to ‘money’, ‘my relationship’ compared to ‘relationship’ or ‘my time’ compared to ‘time’ – does if feel different? Does one feel heavier than the other?

Have you ever noticed sometimes that you arrive at a destination and don't really recall actually making the journey? It was as if the body was just doing its thing, driving just happened. It is only afterwards that the mind grabs hold of the experience and states 'I was driving the car' or, if questioned whilst driving (a present continuous activity), it would say 'I am driving the car'.
Whether your mind is totally concentrating on each gear shift that 'I' make, each look in the rear view mirror that 'I' makes, each twist of the steering wheel . . . or the entire journey is done automatically, the same result is achieved. Similarly when doing household tasks. Whether mind is involved or not, the task still gets accomplished. We call this autopilot. How much of your day is autopilot? Just give me a rough percentage.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Anihera
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Anihera » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:37 pm

[quoteHi Sarah, Thanks for your reply.
Ha! I was so sure I was working hard to represent exactly in words what was being felt, seen, experienced directly - what an effort...!
Thanks so much... something took offense, but feels heaps freer now. Ha ha thats so funny and Im not even sure why yet! - its like I've been trying to get everything right forever and a day - what a stress...aaargh!! feel like shaking it loose!!

Ha! .. thanks again -
checking out the next assignment today.
Appreciating the support,
Anihera :-)


/quote]

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Sarah7
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Sarah7 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:46 pm

Hi Anihera. The comment wasn't for what you had already written, lol!
Hugs S xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Anihera
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Anihera » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:00 pm

Hi Sarah,
Oh, confusion! ok.. :)

Looking at next questions on labelling:
There's a lot of 'I', 'Im', 'me' 'my' and 'mine' looking back over the day... noticing it in the present is trickier unless a still point of noticing happens.

Currently 'I've' been away from home for a week caring for a relative with dementia.
Its very challenging and
'I've' felt a lot like
'get 'me' out of here' and 'for gods sake leave 'me' alone' quite intensely at times.

Right now noticing the thought - 'I' didnt do a great job of being present as those thoughts came up yesterday and that 'I' was identified with the frustration like 'I' had had enough and how 'my' body is tense with it all.

Its applied more to thinking than doing most of the time.

Its like a commentary sometimes and an ownership lots of the time.

It labelled after a felt bodily sense e.g a hurting shoulder became 'my sore shoulder'.
Tension was felt physically first then the thought 'get 'me' out of here' came and got identified with.

Yes, it feels different to say ‘my time’ compared to 'time'.
'My time' feels more dense and like thick mud at the moment.

Autopilot doesnt seem to be around much at the moment... roughly maybe 5% of the day if at all...
The strongest last time was about two weeks ago when driving - I remember feeling very alarmed and freaked out actually to notice 'I'd' not been present at all - it was unnerving and I put it down to being stressed and tired back then.

Not that there's total presence while doing things either, but like there's an awareness of space as well as of the task as well thoughts passing through or of a conscious exercise to notice whats happening in the body.
Thanks Sarah,
Anihera

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Sarah7
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:48 am

Hi Anihera
Autopilot doesnt seem to be around much at the moment... roughly maybe 5% of the day if at all...
The strongest last time was about two weeks ago when driving - I remember feeling very alarmed and freaked out actually to notice 'I'd' not been present at all - it was unnerving and I put it down to being stressed and tired back then.
Do you equate success at this (LU) then with being aware 100% of the time? No autopilot? If your mind is on something else though – you are aware that the body is still getting on with stuff?

OK then lets look at thoughts.
Do you bring thoughts? If so from where and how?
Do you send them away?
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?
Is there is a thought that you can control?
What can a thought do – what power does it have?
'get 'me' out of here' and 'for gods sake leave 'me' alone' quite intensely at times.
Did any of these thoughts come on purpose?
You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Anihera
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Anihera » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:44 pm

Hi Sarah,
I think I have more of an idea of what you mean by autopilot and yes it’s happening more than 5% of the time.. There are always things the body is doing that are automatic and so I could say there’s an element of it all the time. I’m not aware of every movement or shift and I could say movements and shifts are always happening but I can’t say that’s a fully known and felt experience …
Doing my best to look at when autopilot occurs means I’m looking to sense something that’s usually taken for granted and sort of runs in the background or underneath whatever awareness is more directly placed on in the moment. This exercise seems to stop me in my tracks and I feel a sense of wanting to deepen into it – relax into it… once again this doesn’t seem allowable though because of ‘being at work’ or ‘having things I should be doing’…or thoughts that ‘nothing would get done’.
I will look at your next questions on thoughts soon.
Thanking you, Anihera 

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Sarah7
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Sarah7 » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:31 pm

Hi Anihera
Ill post properly then when you have had a chance to answer the other questions. OK
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Anihera
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Re: Request for guide

Postby Anihera » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:17 am


Hi Sarah,
-Do I bring thoughts?
It seems there is a flow of thoughts that
no, I dont bring, they come and go without me.
Then there are times that if l need to give something some
thought I am able to set aside a space and 'do' some thinking.
At those times I seem to call thoughts up or will them to come - they still come from nowhere though. I dont know how they come... they just appear.
- If so from where and how?

-Do I send them away?
No, they move on their own, but I can shift attention
away from them and put it on something else.
I think they still come and go but Im not focussing
on them. I can seem to get stuck in thoughts if they trigger
a challenging emotion.
-Do I know what Im going to think before I think it?
No.
-Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
No
-Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
No
-Can you suppress your next thought before it arises?
Definitely not
-Does it work? No
Is there a thought that you can control?
They are like clouds, not graspable. I can only move my attention towards or away
from them.
-What can a thought do – what power does it have?
I dont think it can actully do anything and it has no power
i.e. I can give a thought attention and 'act on it', but the thought
still doesnt have any power, I have the power to consider the thought or leave it.

-Anihera wrote:
'get 'me' out of here' and 'for gods sake leave 'me' alone' quite intensely at times.

-Did any of these thoughts come on purpose?
Not on purpose I dont think...there was tension emotionally and they seemed
to come in relation to that. I think I decided to give them energy.

-You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?
The content is hard to find. Thoughts seem to come empty ...but if I
give them attention, that attention can connect or imagine? feelings with them and feelings can seem like content, but I dont think thoughts actually have any on their own.

Thanks Sarah,
Anihera xx


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