Would appreciate a guide

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unplugged
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Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:55 am

A search for the truth has brought me to LU. I have been 'seeking' -- on a spiritual path for 30 years but have been studying non-duality and practicing self inquiry for the last 5 years. I spent a month in Ojai with Byron Katie doing the work and attended her 5 day no-body intensive; have read many MANY (and Jean Klein over and over again) of the contemporary (Adyashanti, Tolle, etc.) and historical teachers (I am That, etc.); have had a passion and a burning inside for Self realization -- liberation --- freedom that has been relentless; have attended retreats and private inquiry experiences for weeks and a month this summer; hundreds of videos -- of late, my fav's are Rupert Murdock, Igor Kufayev; read tons of blogs, kindle ebooks, oneness magazine and as many peoples personal spiritual awakening stories that I could get my hands on. I have been reading LU and have looked and not found a separate self -- seems the long sought after seeing has happened and would like verification and guidance on what next. Thank you and looking forward to working with someone soon.

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unplugged
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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:58 am

haha - not Rupert Murdock --- Rupert Spira LOL.

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Canfora
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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby Canfora » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:19 pm

Hi unplugged and welcome to the LU forum.

Thank you for your introduction. I can be your guide if that is ok with you. My name is Sandra and I'm in Portugal.
I have been 'seeking' -- on a spiritual path for 30 years but have been studying non-duality and practicing self inquiry for the last 5 years.
Would you say the seeking is over?
have looked and not found a separate self
What did you find then?
and can you explain what looking is in your own words?

Looking forward to our conversation!

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unplugged
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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:26 pm

Would you say the seeking is over?
YES. It all led to 'seeing' there is no self. That is the root of all suffering because if there is no self, who suffers? I would image that the implications of that seeing are vast and that support will be helpful for living as that knowing.

What did you find then?
I found thoughts, feelings (usually triggered by believing thoughts), body sensations and the mind labeling its experience which is thoughts. No one behind any of this - no controller, no generator, no thinker....just thoughts arising probably out of conditioning, memory, collective consciousness.

and can you explain what looking is in your own words?
Looking is asking a question and seeing if it can actually be found for real. There is no actual person inside this body. There is no person inside my brain. So - no person. I have assumed that there is someone inside this body and brain that has had some volition...but in actual looking, there is no one so how could nothing have volition? There is no one to have any choice or decide anything. It can only just be happening, period.

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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby Canfora » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:32 am

Thank you for your answers. You sound very clear.

Reading your words again this popped up:
would like verification and guidance on what next
When you say you would like verification, do you think that you have some unclear spots, doubts that need addressing - regarding the realisation that you aren't a separate self?

What do you mean with "guidance on what next"? What could or should be different than it is?

Thanks!

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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:00 pm

Life seems to be verifying itself - for instance, as soon as a thought arises that things should have been different - ie: "I" shouldn't have done that --- in the past, "I" would have started feeling guilty, ashamed and a story would have begun followed by trying to fix or change "me" or the situation....but what is happening now is the thought just falls back from where it came from and no feelings or story happen because there is the realization that nothing different could have happened because there was no one there that did anything. Amazed how much freedom, love, space, kindness is present in the absence of a "me". The psychological suffering has been so immense --- and now, just gone.

Guidance - well, that would imply that there is someone here to be guided and there is not. Life is just happening. Unfolding. The initial question seems now to have come from the impatient habit of an imaginary "me" wanting to be prepared, plan, control the future...ha, impossible.

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Canfora
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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby Canfora » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:13 pm

Again, those are clear answers, I enjoyed reading them.
If that is ok with you, I suggest that you answer LU standard questions, that guides ask to all that see the illusion, just to be sure if everything is clear.
You don't need to answer them all in the same day.
Don't forget to give 2 or 3 examples from your experience in Q5.
Have fun :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:28 pm

Hi Sandra,

I thought I would break this down a little. Here are answers to the first 2 questions. Thank you.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. Nothing can be found except a body, physical sensations, thoughts and feelings usually following if thoughts are believed. There was only ever the ‘belief’ that there was a separate self.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is born as soon as a mind/body believes it is separate from life, which is usually complete by 3 years of age. Conditioning continues to reinforce this. It starts with this belief that it is separate and that there are others. The thoughts that are generated are believed to be coming from a “me” an ‘I’ and consequently it believes it is in control of itself and that it has choice, is able to decide and create through its will and intention. It reacts to its own thoughts, which create more feelings which create stories that create more thoughts and feelings until it is a confusing prison of the mind. This “I” wants, needs seeks, longs, its endless. Judgment and condemnation of self and others create immense suffering. The belief in a separate self is false and is the root of suffering --- so many other beliefs are built from the false premise and they are false too. Seeing clearly that there is no separate self drops all this because there is no ‘one’ here from which or to anything is happening. Once the belief in a separate self is questioned and cannot be found, that is really all there is to see. There is no separate self. That’s all. Life is just happening. Thoughts, feelings, sensations happen. There is a body here. There is awareness – seeing, hearing but no person behind this.

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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:38 pm

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It has been about a week since “I” had the clear direct seeing that no separate self exists and that “I” or “me” is an illusion. Initially it was a huge relief and funny. There has been no psychological suffering which is incredible. Apparently there is a direct correlation between believing in a separate self and suffering. There is more space here without attachment to thoughts that come and go. There is a simplicity and relaxation here and no burning fire to seek and find anything. What a relief! There is no need to review anything past because nothing could be any different that it was and there is no one to do anything in future to “fix” it. So much time, energy and space freed up. Not living in my head spinning stories about me – the only time I am in there so to speak is to ask a question --- making sure there is nothing trying to rebuild an imaginary me….ha, nope, still no me. Yay. There is a little more intimacy with reality. A lot of gratitude. A lot! A real celebration – “I” have worked long and hard for this seeing – “I” have earned it, ha. Wow. Amazed that finally, finally the obvious has actually been seen and amazed that it was so easily overlooked for so long and to discover that is why I had such existential suffering. Very very grateful.

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unplugged
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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:47 pm

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I have been obsessed for the past 4-5 years. I was completely driven and unrelenting in this search for truth. So, when I stumbled upon LU, I started reading and in the middle of the book of the 21 stories, I saw. That is when I asked for a guide to verify this seeing. I don’t know that there was a last bit that made me look --- I have not stopped looking until I saw. Something in me knew this track I was on was where I would ‘find” it and so I just kept at it and kept at it ---- it was running me. Reading, reading, reading --- this was all that interested me, nothing else would do. The clear, specific way you all do inquiry was just focused enough where I could actually see and not get distracted or off on another irrelevant track. I looked I saw. Yay.

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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:03 pm

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is no decision, intention, free will, choice or control because there is no one here to be doing that. Life is just happening. There is not someone who makes a decision – and, who would have intention? There is no one. Who would have free will --- there is no one, its all just unfolding – no one is choosing anything and no one has any control. All that has been there is the belief that there is someone doing all those things when in fact, there is only this body with its sensations, thoughts and feelings arising out of nowhere but there is no one, no self or person behind all of that. So it is all just spontaneously happening. I have no idea what makes things happen, they just do. I don’t know how it works it all just seems to come out of nothing and go back into nothing and there is just the awareness of that. I don’t know that I am responsible for anything because there is no one here to be responsible– so, there is only to just simply be, live, question when confused but even that is just happening. I am not sure how to give examples from experience – all I know is that I used to believe I was in control until I saw there is no actual self or person that could have any influence in any way on anything. Now? Well, just live as that knowing. Is there something more you are looking for here?

6) Anything to add?
I am just grateful to be able to relax and allow this to settle and to see how this seeing effects my experience of life.

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Canfora
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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby Canfora » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:42 pm

Thank you for your answers!
One question from other guide:

What exactly are physical sensations / bodily sensations?

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unplugged
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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:35 am

physical pain -- ie: back pain, stiff neck, watery eyes, congestion, stomach ache, sore, contraction, headache, etc.

sensations --- tingling, warmth, expansiveness, relaxation

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Canfora
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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby Canfora » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:53 pm

Does the body do the feeling?

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unplugged
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Re: Would appreciate a guide

Postby unplugged » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:44 pm

No, it is just felt then the mind labels it. And when I am asleep or awareness is focused elsewhere or when nothingness is happening, there is no body or sensation being experienced. So really, the body and feelings are just thoughts too.


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