S. Star's Inroduction

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sstar01
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S. Star's Inroduction

Postby sstar01 » Thu May 28, 2015 4:29 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
Curiosity
What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
I follow the Headless Way and meditate
What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?
I desire an open dialog about our True Nature

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Kevalino
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby Kevalino » Sat May 30, 2015 4:55 am

Hello sstar01,

Welcome to LU! I am happy to be your guide. I liked hearing about your curiosity and interest in the headless way. A friend introduced me to Douglas Harding last March. While I initially found the beginning of the Headless Way quite boring, he got to me by the end!
I desire an open dialog about our True Nature
Tell me more about this. I'm interested in your current understanding of True Nature.

Kevalino

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sstar01
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby sstar01 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:08 am

Oh, thank you very much for your reply Kevalino. I am new to forums and did not find your response until just now. Please let me know how not to miss them in the future.

My current experience is not an "understanding" it is the truest of knowings that True Nature, the "I" that I am is boundless Awareness. I am the no-thing that contains nothing and at the same time everything, including the "little one" that is everyone else's view of me. This Essence of boundless awareness is Self-aware. It is impossible to define and yet we as humans have an innate drive to do so.

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Kevalino
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby Kevalino » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:33 am

Hello sstar01,

There's a "subscribe to this topic" box at the bottom of the thread that notifies you whenever I respond. Please click on that now and we'll be good to go. There's a lot about the site I had to learn myself, so no worries!
My current experience is not an "understanding" it is the truest of knowings that True Nature, the "I" that I am is boundless Awareness. I am the no-thing that contains nothing and at the same time everything, including the "little one" that is everyone else's view of me. This Essence of boundless awareness is Self-aware. It is impossible to define and yet we as humans have an innate drive to do so.
Thanks for sharing your current experience. At LU, we explore this "I" you've referenced above, and assist in seeing that it is merely an illusion. I'll be asking you to look at what is actually happening in your experience. Rather than going by what you heard from others, or what different teachers may have told you, I am only interested in what you can verify for yourself. Ok?

Before we get started, here are some guidelines that will help us both:

1. Post at least once a day. If you cannot do so, please let me know and we'll adjust as needed.

2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry. There are no right or wrong answers.

3. Only answer from direct personal experience. Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for help on distinguishing what is direct experience. If needed, we can also go into more depth later.

4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main site -> http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

5. Learn to use the quote function. See viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

6. Put aside all other teachings and philosophies for the duration of this investigation. They can get in the way. Curiosity is your best friend!

Once you confirm that you've seen all of this and agree to the disclaimer, we'll begin.

Kevalino

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sstar01
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby sstar01 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:05 pm

Got it. I have read the above and agree.

Are you saying that Boundless Awareness, which is all that exists is, is just an illusion? The term "I" is used very loosely but it is the language of convention. We are attempting to describe the indescribable and explain non-verbal experiences using language; this is always tricky.

There is no "I" in a body, there is no "I" as personality but through personal experience, which is what we are discussing here (and are only to discuss here), the "I AM" of Pure Consciousness is not an illusion. It is that which is referred to when I attempt to describe what "I" am.

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Kevalino
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby Kevalino » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:18 pm

Hello,
The term "I" is used very loosely but it is the language of convention. We are attempting to describe the indescribable and explain non-verbal experiences using language; this is always tricky.
Yes, conventional language can be tricky! The good news is that we're exploring your own experience, not mine or anyone else's. I'm just here to guide you in arriving at your own conclusions :)
There is no "I" in a body, there is no "I" as personality but through personal experience, which is what we are discussing here (and are only to discuss here)
Yes, we engage in dialogue as a means to see what's really happening, but avoid debate, conceptual discussion, and theoretical analysis. I simply ask questions and offer different exercises that require you to look directly in your own experience. Based on your response, I may ask further questions. Through this mutual communication, greater clarity and different ways of seeing can unfold.
...the "I AM" of Pure Consciousness is not an illusion. It is that which is referred to when I attempt to describe what "I" am.
Are YOU pure consciousness, or is pure consciousness pure consciousness? In other words, is pure consciousness, or any other type of consciousness, just happening?

Please use the link below to do this exercise on paper. Let me know what you discover!

http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html

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sstar01
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby sstar01 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:16 am

OK. From now on I will write these posts in Word and cut and paste them into the forum. I wrote a response only to have it just disappear. Arrrgh!
To answer your first question are YOU pure consciousness, or is pure consciousness pure consciousness? There is only one "YOU," "Consciousness," "Void," "The One," (however it is termed). From experience this Consciousness contains everything and at once permeates everything, is at once everything and nothing. This human experience is always an "out of body experience" whether realized or not.
There is a much loved experiment that can be used to show this. It's one that is conducted with eyes closed. While sitting with eyes closed ask the following questions are asked: What is "seen"? (Darkness with flecks of light). Is there more than one field of vision? (More than one is not found). How big is this field of vision? Is there a second one to compare it with? (There seems to be only one and it seems infinite in size). With eyes still closed ask more questions… What is heard? Is there more than one field of sound? Where do these sounds arise from? How big is the field of sound? Is there a second one with which to compare it? What about sensations? Is there a body found in the field of sensation? How big is this field of sensation? Is there a second field of sensation to compare to it for size?
To answer your second question, is Consciousness just happening (or Consciousnessing as it were)? That is a million dollar question. Through experience and the experiment above that would seem to be the case. As mentioned earlier, and also through experience, this Void that is at once nothing and everything is self-aware; it is Self-Awareness. It seems very much a paradox. So you ask, do things just spring into being—just happen? Based on sensory organs of this body, it would seem to be so, but that has yet to be proven and remains the ultimate mystery. Maybe someday humans will "crack that nut," they keep attempting to do so.
In terms of the exercise, nothing was discovered per se but instead remembered, which is always a good thing. It was an opportunity. When spoken to in this way, without using the "I," the body relaxes and becomes the channel of Consciousness. Awareness goes from constriction of the little self to expansion, which can be felt as an opening and relaxation sensation. Feelings like getting out of tight shoes to putting on a favorite pair of slippers are experienced. Ahhh. Every opportunity to remember offers an opportunity for the conditioning to let go. Thanks for providing a new tool/toy to add to the tool/toy box!

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Kevalino
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby Kevalino » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:33 pm

Hello,

Sorry to hear about having to rewrite your post! Your strategy should solve that problem.

Please use the quote function in replying. It is used to quote anything from me that you are responding to. The quote function inserts the quote in the post, and you can then respond underneath it. This makes it easier to see and interpret the questions and responses from both of us. Thank you!
There is only one "YOU," "Consciousness," "Void," "The One," (however it is termed). From experience this Consciousness contains everything and at once permeates everything, is at once everything and nothing.
Is there only one, or not two? Notice what it feels like in the body when you say, “There is only one,” versus “Not two.” It may seem like we’re splitting hairs over language, but what I’m pointing to is the subtle ways we can reify anything, even consciousness or self awareness. We can make anything into an “I am,” and it can get subtler and harder to spot, especially after seeing there is no “I.”
This human experience is always an "out of body experience" whether realized or not.
Is there really an in and out, or is experience just happening?
Through experience and the experiment above that would seem to be the case. As mentioned earlier, and also through experience, this Void that is at once nothing and everything is self-aware; it is Self-Awareness. It seems very much a paradox. So you ask, do things just spring into being—just happen? Based on sensory organs of this body, it would seem to be so, but that has yet to be proven and remains the ultimate mystery. Maybe someday humans will "crack that nut," they keep attempting to do so.
There are a few "seems" in your response :) Please avoid seem, think, believe, etc. They are based on concepts rather than experience. What do you know based on direct experience? For purposes of our inquiry, what has yet to be proven, what is the ultimate mystery or what others think is not really relevant. Just look! Again, is everything just happening?
When spoken to in this way, without using the "I," the body relaxes and becomes the channel of Consciousness.
Great! So, you noticed the body relax and open more without using "I" language. Relax and open happened. Was "...becomes the channel of Consciousness" just a thought after the raw experience?

Kevalino

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sstar01
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby sstar01 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:15 pm

Is there information about how to use the quote function somewhere? Thanks.
I will respond once I know how to use it.

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sstar01
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby sstar01 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:43 pm

Also, would you know how to use the quote function in Word, since I am typing up my responses there?

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Kevalino
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby Kevalino » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:30 pm

Hi,

Instructions for the quote function are in #5 on the initial post I sent about all the items that needed review and agreement. If you still have questions, please let me know.

I write in the LU post and when I start quoting, I will periodically copy and paste from the post into Word, so I don't lose it. It copies the quotes. You can then copy and paste the entire Word document in your post and reply.

Kevalino

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sstar01
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby sstar01 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:49 pm

Yes, I went to number five above and the link: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 that you put in does not work.

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Kevalino
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby Kevalino » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:06 pm

I'll have to check on that.

OK, here are some instructions. Please let me know if you still have questions.

- Click on "Post Reply"
- Place your cursor where you want the quote to be inserted in the post.
- Scroll down to the previous posts below and highlight the text you want to quote.
- Click the "Quote" button
- It should insert the quote in your post
- You can then respond below the quote

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sstar01
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby sstar01 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:35 am

I hope I have the quote thing figured out...
Is there only one, or not two? Notice what it feels like in the body when you say, “There is only one,” versus “Not two.”
When it is said that there is only one there is an expanding sensation in the body. When not two is said a sinking sensation is experienced.

Is there really an in and out, or is experience just happening?
I am a bit confused. I am not sure what "in and out" has to do with experience just happening? The bodies sensations tell me that what I am (and yes there is a sentience experience about it) contains everything. It is a feeling of capacity, emptiness that feels full of everything.
I do not know if experience is just happening. I can say there is no physical experience of how everything manifests.

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Kevalino
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Re: S. Star's Inroduction

Postby Kevalino » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:41 am

When it is said that there is only one there is an expanding sensation in the body. When not two is said a sinking sensation is experienced.
Great. Just notice how thoughts and beliefs shape our experience.
I am a bit confused. I am not sure what "in and out" has to do with experience just happening?
You said earlier that this human experience is always an out of body experience. Out implies an in, which implies a boundary. I should clarify I was asking whether there really is a boundary you can point to in actual experience. Or, is this human experience just happening without any boundaries?
The bodies sensations tell me that what I am...
When you say "I", what does that refer to in direct experience? Please describe in detail. Does it have a shape, size, quality?
It is a feeling of capacity, emptiness that feels full of everything.
Is there an "I" to be found here, or is it thought? Body sensations?
I do not know if experience is just happening.
When I use the term "just happening," I'm referring to the absence of a doer, hearer, thinker, decider, etc. When driving a car, is there a driver you can find, or does driving just happen? When hearing a sound, is there a hearer you can find and actually identify, or is there just hearing?
I can say there is no physical experience of how everything manifests.
Yes, exactly. Everything manifests on it's own without you. You experience body sensations, thoughts, feelings, right? Is there a you doing any of it?


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