I am requesting a guide

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mingdynasty
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I am requesting a guide

Postby mingdynasty » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:11 am

I'm Kevin and I am looking for a guide to help me get a deeper understanding of what lies beyond the non-separated self. I have been meditating for several years and have more recently been becoming more aware. I understand that there is no separate self and that the ego can make I seem very real and separated. But there seems to be a lot more room for understanding life and awareness. I would appreciate getting a guide to help me better understand.

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Sarah7
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:42 pm

Hi Kevin
Im Sarah and Id be happy to guide you.
Have you looked around our site? Do you know what we do here?
What are your expectations for this process?
What is it that you are searching for?
How will you know that you found it?
How will this feel?
How will this change you?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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mingdynasty
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby mingdynasty » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:54 pm

Hi Sarah,
Thank you for the quick response. Yes I have looked around the site and somewhat understand the concept of no self. If I understand it correctly, we are simply what we experience in awareness. The part I am having trouble understanding, is if we are simply awareness, and this awareness is passed from lifetime to lifetime, where does this awareness reside between lifetimes. I'm not sure if I have stated this correctly so please feel free to guide me on this. Also, what is the purpose of having a body if awareness is capable of existing between lifetimes?
Kevin

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Sarah7
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:23 pm

Hi Kevin
And where are you in relation to the other questions?
You do know this isn't a discussion site? We just point here.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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mingdynasty
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby mingdynasty » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:43 pm

I understand it's not a discussion website so we will keep it in perspective. I think I will need you to better guide me with where to go from here. I am trying to understand the idea of no self. I am experiencing objects arising throughout the day yet there is no I. So what is experiencing the objects? Can you point me in the right direction?

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Sarah7
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:45 pm

Hi Kevin
You are in the right place, I just wanted to make sure you knew what we did. OK!
So what are your expectations for this process?
What is it that you are searching for?
How will you know that you found it?
How will this feel?
How will this change you?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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mingdynasty
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby mingdynasty » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:04 am

Hi Sarah
My expectations for this process is to have a guide who has a thorough understanding of the no self so that they can help guide me into fully understanding it myself minus the self.

I am searching for a clear vision into the nature of reality.

I will know when I have found it because I will not feel the need to search any further once I fully understand the lack of self.

I do not know yet how it will feel because I am not there yet but I assume it will feel as though I am one with everything in a non-dual sense.

I hope this will bring change into being enlightened so that I can get rid of the self as I assume it does not exist.

Kevin

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Sarah7
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:28 pm

Hi Kevin
Just so that I know about any time differences, whereabouts do you live? I’m in England.

There are also a few house keeping standard ground rules before we start:

Please agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say that you're still around, and I'll do the same. Sometimes it might just not be possible for one of us to post substantively and of course we'd find a way to work round that.

I am not your teacher, all I can do is point and you look, until clear seeing happens.

In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies etc. for the duration of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. (If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it's ok to continue with that. And it's fine to read threads in this forum and the Gateless Gatecrashers book.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/, together with our disclaimer and a short video.

Please confirm that you have seen these, that you agree to the disclaimer and then we'll begin.

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:
1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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mingdynasty
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby mingdynasty » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:23 pm

Hi Sarah,
I am in Phoenix, Arizona USA so I think you are about 7 hours behind me. I have learned to use the quote section as you suggested.
Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.
I have also read and agree to the disclaimer and used the Subscribe to this Topic feature as you suggested. I am ready to begin with you and appreciate you being my guide.
Kevin

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Sarah7
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:09 am

Thanks Kevin!
Lets get started then! Please let me know If I give you too much to do!

How do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'?

For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?

Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?

Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does? In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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mingdynasty
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby mingdynasty » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:38 am

Hi Sarah,
How do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'?
My experience of myself seems to come from how I interpret people, ideas, self worth, ambition, and my own actions. All of this gives me my identity and forms who I believe I am.
For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?
It feels as though it is directly a reflection of my experiences. A very solid feeling that has long been solid until recently. I have lately been questioning every aspect of myself and find myself breaking free of the once solid and boring beliefs that guided my thoughts. It seems to be primarily in my head and my body feels more separated from my beliefs. Almost as though my body is a passenger that is just along for the ride except for during meditation when mind and body do feel as one. It does not seem to have a shape or texture or of any particular size. The self feels that it owns the thoughts but not the body.
Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?
It is made up of all that you mentioned, thoughts, feelings, emotions, opinions, memories, experiences, perceptions, character and personality. Myself does decide, choose, act and control itself. There are two times when myself is not at all experienced. One is when I meditate. During mediation I often go into a dream state that can experience other realms of consciousness where self does not seem to exist. The other time when self does not exist is on occasion when I am out in public surrounded by lots of other people. I sometimes can sit back and just reach a level of awareness of everything around me which seems to leave the self behind.
Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?
Myself seems to reside in my head and to a smaller degree, my body.
Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does? In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now?
In my direct experience, nothing seems permanent. It seems more as though it is objects in constant motion that appear and disappear.

Kevin

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Sarah7
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:21 pm

Hi Kevin
My experience of myself seems to come from how I interpret people, ideas, self worth, ambition, and my own actions. All of this gives me my identity and forms who I believe I am.
And are all of these thought based?
There are two times when myself is not at all experienced.
And is it an expectation that this state of no self is permanent?
Myself seems to reside in my head and to a smaller degree, my body.
And when you meditate? Is it the same?
In my direct experience, nothing seems permanent. It seems more as though it is objects in constant motion that appear and disappear.
Lovely! Is a feeling of self also included in this constant movement? Have a look.

OK a little exercise!

Id like you to just sit for 5-10 minutes with a paper and pen and I want you to record everything you notice from your ‘I’ list. I want you too look at what experiences come up, what actions you notice, what labels you see and WHERE they are applied, what feelings and emotions come up, and what sensations arise.
Don’t add to what shows itself, don’t analyse, just plain description. Watch the body for any sensations like relaxing or tightening. Just write me a list like - I am lying in bed, I am hearing the rain, I am writing this list, I can feel a sensation of relaxing etc….
Id like you then to repeat the exercise doing exactly the same as you did above, but this time I don’t want you to use the word ‘I’ or ‘me’ when you write the list of what you notice. Again don’t add to what shows itself, don’t analyse, just plain description. Watch the body for any sensations like relaxing or tightening. Just write me a list like - waiting for the next thought, writing, breathing, listening, relaxing sensation etc…
What do you notice from doing the two looking exercises? Which feels truer?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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mingdynasty
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby mingdynasty » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:34 am

Hi Sarah,

My experience of myself seems to come from how I interpret people, ideas, self worth, ambition, and my own actions. All of this gives me my identity and forms who I believe I am.
And are all of these thought based?
Yes I would say they are primarily all thought based.

There are two times when myself is not at all experienced.
And is it an expectation that this state of no self is permanent?
I would expect it to be permanent by I always fall back into the thought based self. It seems somewhat difficult to live every moment of the day in a no self awareness. I am concerned that it would be difficult to run my business and interact with other people if there were no self.

Myself seems to reside in my head and to a smaller degree, my body.
And when you meditate? Is it the same?
No, when I meditate there does not seem to be a body of or any form of mental control. It is more like a dream state that is on auto-pilot.
Id like you to just sit for 5-10 minutes with a paper and pen and I want you to record everything you notice from your ‘I’ list. I want you too look at what experiences come up, what actions you notice, what labels you see and WHERE they are applied, what feelings and emotions come up, and what sensations arise.
Don’t add to what shows itself, don’t analyse, just plain description. Watch the body for any sensations like relaxing or tightening. Just write me a list like - I am lying in bed, I am hearing the rain, I am writing this list, I can feel a sensation of relaxing etc….
I am concerned about not getting enough sleep so I feel good at work tomorrow. I feel resistance to the anxiety and it tells me to just be calm. I feel I have many things to do and am concerned I may forget something. I am excited about my future. I am thinking about my girlfriend. I am thinking about an upcoming play. I am experiencing a sudden pain in my left shoulder and in my left leg. I am experiencing a shortness of breath and having to take a deep breath.
Id like you then to repeat the exercise doing exactly the same as you did above, but this time I don’t want you to use the word ‘I’ or ‘me’ when you write the list of what you notice. Again don’t add to what shows itself, don’t analyze, just plain description. Watch the body for any sensations like relaxing or tightening. Just write me a list like - waiting for the next thought, writing, breathing, listening, relaxing sensation etc…
What do you notice from doing the two looking exercises? Which feels truer?
Coldness, waiting for next thought, heart beating, pulsating in lower back, waiting for another thought, sleepy.
What do you notice from doing the two looking exercises? Which feels truer?
The first exercise seemed more thought based. The second exercise seemed more based on sensations in my body with not much thought. The sensations seemed more true because they felt as though they actually existed whereas the thoughts seemed more like they were being made up on a what if type of scenario.

Kevin

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Sarah7
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:48 pm

Hi Kevin
There are two times when myself is not at all experienced.
And they are?
I would expect it to be permanent by I always fall back into the thought based self.

And where is this belief/idea from? Books? Teachings? Etc?
No, when I meditate there does not seem to be a body of or any form of mental control. It is more like a dream state that is on auto-pilot.
OK – well seen.
The first exercise seemed more thought based. The second exercise seemed more based on sensations in my body with not much thought. The sensations seemed more true because they felt as though they actually existed whereas the thoughts seemed more like they were being made up on a what if type of scenario.
Good. So staying with labelling I want you to look during your day at how labelling happens. See if you can catch ‘I’, ‘I’m’, ‘me’, ‘my’, ‘mine’, ‘I’ve’, etc See if you can see what you apply it too. Is it applied to doing, thinking etc? Is it all the time, most of the time? Is it like a commentary or like an ownership? Does it come in before, during or after the fact?

If you say ‘my money’ and compare it to ‘money’, ‘my relationship’ compared to ‘relationship’ or ‘my time’ compared to ‘time’ – does if feel different? Does one feel heavier than the other?

Is the label 'water' actually water?

Have you ever noticed sometimes that you arrive at a destination and don't really recall actually making the journey? It was as if the body was just doing its thing, driving just happened. It was as if the body was just doing its thing, driving just happened (we call this autopilot). It is only afterwards that the mind grabs hold of the experience and states 'I was driving the car' or, if questioned whilst driving (a present continuous activity), it would say 'I am driving the car'. Whether your mind is totally concentrating on each gear shift that 'I' make, each look in the rear view mirror that 'I' makes, each twist of the steering wheel . . . or the entire journey is done automatically, the same result is achieved. Similarly when doing household tasks. Whether mind is involved or not, the task still gets accomplished. Loving your family stills continues whether mind is on overdrive or totally relaxed . . .
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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mingdynasty
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Re: I am requesting a guide

Postby mingdynasty » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:18 am

Hi Sarah,

Sorry I have not posted in three days but this website has been down fro three days. Anyway, here is reply to your last post.
And where is this belief/idea from? Books? Teachings? Etc?
This belief is just from the fact that I would find it very difficult to do my job or interact with other people if I were only aware without my mind adding something to it.
Good. So staying with labelling I want you to look during your day at how labelling happens. See if you can catch ‘I’, ‘I’m’, ‘me’, ‘my’, ‘mine’, ‘I’ve’, etc See if you can see what you apply it too. Is it applied to doing, thinking etc? Is it all the time, most of the time? Is it like a commentary or like an ownership? Does it come in before, during or after the fact?
I paid attention to my thoughts today and here are just a few simple thoughts that came into my head today.
I need to get gas for my car. I hope my dad is doing better today. I think I'll finish my work early today.
If you say ‘my money’ and compare it to ‘money’, ‘my relationship’ compared to ‘relationship’ or ‘my time’ compared to ‘time’ – does if feel different? Does one feel heavier than the other?
My car feels heavier than just car. It seems to remove the attachment and just makes it more of an object. The same seems to apply to anything else I put the word my in front of.
Have you ever noticed sometimes that you arrive at a destination and don't really recall actually making the journey? It was as if the body was just doing its thing, driving just happened. It was as if the body was just doing its thing, driving just happened (we call this autopilot). It is only afterwards that the mind grabs hold of the experience and states 'I was driving the car' or, if questioned whilst driving (a present continuous activity), it would say 'I am driving the car'. Whether your mind is totally concentrating on each gear shift that 'I' make, each look in the rear view mirror that 'I' makes, each twist of the steering wheel . . . or the entire journey is done automatically, the same result is achieved. Similarly when doing household tasks. Whether mind is involved or not, the task still gets accomplished. Loving your family stills continues whether mind is on overdrive or totally relaxed . . .
You are right. The same task always gets accomplished either way. Now that you put it that way, it seems so much less of a burden if I don't really give it much thought but rather just let it happen.

Kevin


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