Requesting a guide

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Echopapa
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Requesting a guide

Postby Echopapa » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:14 pm

Hello,

I'm requesting a guide to help me see through the illusion of a separate self.

Thank you,
Brett

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:17 pm

Hi Brett,
Hello,

I'm requesting a guide to help me see through the illusion of a separate self.

Thank you,
Brett
This is John from the UK. Very nice to meet you.

A few quick guidelines: look to post daily/regularly or post to say if a break is needed; and set aside any other spiritual practices during our inquiry together.

Also, our disclaimer.

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

If you could confirm you have seen the above and would like me to be your guide - then we shall begin.

If you'd like to begin, here's a starter: "What would you say is an illusion?"

With best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Echopapa
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Echopapa » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:53 am

This is John from the UK. Very nice to meet you.
Hi John, thank you for your assistance, I appreciate the generosity.
A few quick guidelines: look to post daily/regularly or post to say if a break is needed; and set aside any other spiritual practices during our inquiry together.

Also, our disclaimer.

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

If you could confirm you have seen the above and would like me to be your guide - then we shall begin.
Yes, I have reviewed the guidelines and disclaimer and am ready to proceed.
If you'd like to begin, here's a starter: "What would you say is an illusion?"
An illusion is something that is taken to be true, real or existent, but is not in fact so.

Brett

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:06 pm

Hi Brett,

Great - looking forward to our enquiry together!
An illusion is something that is taken to be true, real or existent, but is not in fact so.
In everyday life, share the experience of acting as if you are me/myself/I/Brett/self.

How do you know you are Brett?

If Brett is the self, where does Brett reside, what is its nature?

Grab an arm. Hold it for a minute.
Grab the idea of "Brett". Hold it for a minute.
What's the difference?

...and share what shows up.

Thank you,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Echopapa
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Echopapa » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:52 am

Hi John,
Answers below:
In everyday life, share the experience of acting as if you are me/myself/I/Brett/self.
Finding this one tricky to answer…perhaps because, due to the holiday, I'm not in my usual/typical everyday life. Reflecting on recent memory of being in my typical everyday life, I seem to act in order to be liked, not be embarrassed, to generate connection with others. This “me” wants these things, among others. The “me” seems strongest when I’m interacting with other people.
How do you know you are Brett?
There seems to be some basic continuity of memories and sensations and emotions, along with a way others act toward/communicate with me - which serves as a sort of confirmation of me or “Brett".
If Brett is the self, where does Brett reside, what is its nature?
The first thing that comes to mind is that Brett is an idea believed “here”. The idea has something to do with this body, and with the above continuity of memories. “Here” seems to be inside the head.
Grab an arm. Hold it for a minute.
Grab the idea of "Brett". Hold it for a minute.
What's the difference?
In grabbing the arm, there are sensation of solidity.
In grabbing the idea of Brett, there’s no sensation of grabbing, no clear confirmation anything was grasped. What comes up are some sensations in the upper chest and throat.

I'm attempting to be pithy with my answers and not over-think them too much. But let me know if you'd like more/different than this.

Thanks John,
Brett

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:24 am

Hi Brett,

Great responses - thank you.
Finding this one tricky to answer…perhaps because, due to the holiday, I'm not in my usual/typical everyday life. Reflecting on recent memory of being in my typical everyday life, I seem to act in order to be liked, not be embarrassed, to generate connection with others. This “me” wants these things, among others. The “me” seems strongest when I’m interacting with other people.
Sure. This is the normal state of affairs. :) At least Scooby Doo realised the ghost was only a projection of the dastardly caretaker trying to scare folks away. :D
How do you know you are Brett?

There seems to be some basic continuity of memories and sensations and emotions, along with a way others act toward/communicate with me - which serves as a sort of confirmation of me or “Brett".
Yes, just simple conditioning.
If Brett is the self, where does Brett reside, what is its nature?

The first thing that comes to mind is that Brett is an idea believed “here”. The idea has something to do with this body, and with the above continuity of memories. “Here” seems to be inside the head.
Bring Brett to the forefront in every possible way, the feeling of being Brett, the sense of Brett, maybe the sense of being Brett behind the eyes, a regular Brett feeling in the body, the whole shebang, be as 100% Brett as you can be.

When Brett is in the house in a regular, everyday way. Just sit with the whole Brett experience, being Brett. It shouldn't take too much effort.

Now, ask yourself this question - and let this question penetrate as deep as it can go without being answered.

AM I BRETT?

Let any answer bubble up.

If the answer is no, drop into the FULL IMPLICATIONS of not being Brett. Here you are, and you're not Brett. Not at all in any way shape or form. If that is a possibility, step into it as far as seems right. No need to push, just step, step, into another possibility. See what shows up. To no-one.

Thank you.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! :)
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Echopapa
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Echopapa » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:41 am

Hi John,

I just wanted to drop a note to let you know that this inquiry is still "simmering". It's both rich and yet elusive, and doesn't feel done yet so I don't want to rush a reply. I will post tomorrow no matter what.

Happy New Year!
Brett

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:21 am

Hi John,

I just wanted to drop a note to let you know that this inquiry is still "simmering". It's both rich and yet elusive, and doesn't feel done yet so I don't want to rush a reply. I will post tomorrow no matter what.

Happy New Year!
Brett
Thanks Brett. Much appreciated!!! /j
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Echopapa
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Echopapa » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:35 pm

Hi John,
Bring Brett to the forefront in every possible way, the feeling of being Brett, the sense of Brett, maybe the sense of being Brett behind the eyes, a regular Brett feeling in the body, the whole shebang, be as 100% Brett as you can be.

When Brett is in the house in a regular, everyday way. Just sit with the whole Brett experience, being Brett. It shouldn't take too much effort.

Now, ask yourself this question - and let this question penetrate as deep as it can go without being answered.

AM I BRETT?

Let any answer bubble up.
No. Brett is just a series – or perhaps cycle - of thoughts, feelings, images, memories (which are also thoughts), sensations, emotions and resulting actions – all seeming to be feeding each other bidirectionally, possibly simultaneously. Happening so fast as to give the hologram-like appearance that there’s a “me” here, a “me” which was originally named “Brett”.
If the answer is no, drop into the FULL IMPLICATIONS of not being Brett. Here you are, and you're not Brett. Not at all in any way shape or form. If that is a possibility, step into it as far as seems right. No need to push, just step, step, into another possibility. See what shows up. To no-one.
First, it becomes conspicuous that there’s something noticing all of this – noticing the thoughts, feelings, images, memories, sensations, emotions – i.e. the hologram that’s created by them.

When I read your words “here you are and you’re not Brett”, there is curiosity about the “you” and “you’re”… because “Brett” is that hologram. It’s not actually existent. But something feels odd about calling this noticing aspect “me”. Confusion arises here, at this point. There’s a reluctance to identify with the noticing. Is this some old conditioning?

Seems like there’s more unpacking to do, but there's confusion about where to go from here.

Thanks so much, John.
Brett

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:24 pm

Hi Brett,
No. Brett is just a series – or perhaps cycle - of thoughts, feelings, images, memories (which are also thoughts), sensations, emotions and resulting actions – all seeming to be feeding each other bidirectionally, possibly simultaneously. Happening so fast as to give the hologram-like appearance that there’s a “me” here, a “me” which was originally named “Brett”.
Just an idea, that is maintained, confirmed. Actually very fragile and blinks out regularly. We just pretend not to notice.
First, it becomes conspicuous that there’s something noticing all of this – noticing the thoughts, feelings, images, memories, sensations, emotions – i.e. the hologram that’s created by them.

When I read your words “here you are and you’re not Brett”, there is curiosity about the “you” and “you’re”… because “Brett” is that hologram. It’s not actually existent. But something feels odd about calling this noticing aspect “me”. Confusion arises here, at this point. There’s a reluctance to identify with the noticing. Is this some old conditioning?
Go with the noticing aspect for now. Confusion comes when we try and work it out rather than just see it. :) Confusion is also a bit of a sly Jedi mind-trick - "we need to work it out first". Er, no we don't.

Back in a bit...

/john
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:52 pm

Hi Brett,
AM I BRETT?

No. Brett is just a series – or perhaps cycle - of thoughts, feelings, images, memories
Let's explore the sensation of being Brett.

Sit with it, allow it. As you do, sitting with it, notice how the sensation has been named “Brett”. Notice how the label “Brett” chimes with the sensation. The two have become one in experience.

Notice another hidden notion: that the sensation + label “Brett” IS you. This is the identification. Become utterly aware of this assumption as a way of life.

Notice how the sensation + the label “me” + the notion that “this is me” work together to form an “I”.

NOW…

Put the assumption that "this IS me" to one side.

Allow the sensation + label “me” to stay, but without the assumption.

Sit with that for 5/10 minutes. Allow space for it to exist AND not to be you.


Feel the space in and around.

Have a play…and share what you notice.

Thank you,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Echopapa
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Echopapa » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:53 am

Hi John,

The first thing I notice is that in order to put the assumption aside, I have to be the noticing I described earlier. The identification, or assumption, requires not noticing. As I write this it seems so obvious but in experience it’s a subtle yet powerful shift.

Another thing I notice is that the sensation labeled Brett has a contracted or tense quality - there’s a sense of fear and other uncomfortable emotions. Trying to change/assuage this drives a lot (all?) of the activity of the “me”.

Without the assumption/identification "this is me", there is just sensation and the label (which I notice is a thought)…but as sit with the label and the “me” thought for a few minutes without the assumption, that label seems to fade, like it’s deflating or like a battery running out of power. What then comes to the forefront is simply the sensations and the noticing.

Okay, I’ll stop there for now.

Thanks so much,
Brett

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:55 am

Hi Brett,

Good stuff!
Hi John,

The first thing I notice is that in order to put the assumption aside, I have to be the noticing I described earlier. The identification, or assumption, requires not noticing. As I write this it seems so obvious but in experience it’s a subtle yet powerful shift.
Yes, being aware (note: not identifying with awareness, but the simple act of being aware).
There can be being aware...and the sensations...and the label 'me'.
Another thing I notice is that the sensation labeled Brett has a contracted or tense quality - there’s a sense of fear and other uncomfortable emotions. Trying to change/assuage this drives a lot (all?) of the activity of the “me”.
Good. Yes, just regular sensations hi-jacked to play being "me". The more we look, and see, there is stories of "me" and stories about stories of "me" - like changing "me", "my" drives etc, etc.
Without the assumption/identification "this is me", there is just sensation and the label (which I notice is a thought)…but as sit with the label and the “me” thought for a few minutes without the assumption, that label seems to fade, like it’s deflating or like a battery running out of power. What then comes to the forefront is simply the sensations and the noticing.
Deflating < good description. The "me" is blown up like a balloon by the agreement to believe in it and act like its true. Withdrawing the agreement, lets the air out of this balloon.

Sit with any residue of "me" and sensations felt as "me" and:

1. Notice the implicit agreement to believe in it as you.
2. Start to withdraw agreement a little and notice what happens.
3. Continue to withdraw agreement as far as seems good to go to.

Share what shows up.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Echopapa
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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Echopapa » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:47 am

Hi John,
I’m experiencing some blockage or confusion with the part about “withdrawing agreement”. I can’t tell whether it’s the wording not registering or some form of resistance. I’d like to sit with it another day and write tomorrow on whether there’s any shift. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.
Thanks,
Brett

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Re: Requesting a guide

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:28 am

Hi Brett,
Hi John,
I’m experiencing some blockage or confusion with the part about “withdrawing agreement”. I can’t tell whether it’s the wording not registering or some form of resistance. I’d like to sit with it another day and write tomorrow on whether there’s any shift. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.
Thanks,
Brett
That's cool. We're looking into the implicit belief that "I am Brett" and bringing this to the surface to look at. This is not necessarily an easy thing to do, it being a feeling; but still, it's about seeing these "ties that bind".

We can enquire how this belief is supported and maintained.
Our fears concerning were this belief not the case - who would we be?
In withdrawing agreement, we are stepping towards the dropping of this belief.
Noticing what shows up as we do.
Not jumping off a cliff :) but seeing the landscape of believing.

See what you see, that's fine.

Speak soon,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/


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