Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the way.

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the way.

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:47 am

Just reply back "I'm ready to go!" and we'll get started.

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Pandapop
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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby Pandapop » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:20 pm

I'm ready to go

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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:18 pm

Pandapop, Welcome!

To begin I will share some guidelines to make the process clearer for you. Please read them and respond back to confirm you are comfortable with them.

1. This is your journey. I am a Guide. I am not a teacher, guru or therapist. We walk together and I keep pointing the way. You make the journey. My pointing mostly will take the form of questions that I will ask and you will answer.
2. I am in the Pacific Time Zone in the US. I will read your posts in the morning my time, consider them, then pose the questions and make comments once per day. I would like to do this in a way you will have time to consider the questions before you respond. Please confirm back your timezone so we can coordinate this well.
3. Confirm you will be able to post once per day. When posting, you are committed to responding from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). You understand that longwinded analytical or philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. You commit to responding to questions with utmost honesty.
5. You are comfortable setting aside all other teachings, philosophies and “isms” for the remainder of this investigation. This means you will put all your effort and attention into seeing reality as it is here in this investigation. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please read our disclaimer and have a look at the introductory materials: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

The quote function helps smooth of the communication process. Instructions are here: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660” Try it by “quoting” the items 1 through 6 back to me and confirming you are comfortable with the guidelines.

As a small administrative tip, on the bottom of the page in the blue navigation bar you you will see a link that says “Subcribe Topic” just to the right of where it says “Board Index.” If you click that you will get an email when I post a response for you. I enable it and find it helpful.

I look forward to working with you.

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Pandapop
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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby Pandapop » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:13 pm

Pandapop, Welcome!

To begin I will share some guidelines to make the process clearer for you. Please read them and respond back to confirm you are comfortable with them.
1. This is your journey. I am a Guide. I am not a teacher, guru or therapist. We walk together and I keep pointing the way. You make the journey. My pointing mostly will take the form of questions that I will ask and you will answer.
OK
2.
I am in the Pacific Time Zone in the US. I will read your posts in the morning my time, consider them, then pose the questions and make comments once per day. I would like to do this in a way you will have time to consider the questions before you respond. Please confirm back your timezone so we can coordinate this well.
I am in the UK
3.
Confirm you will be able to post once per day. When posting, you are committed to responding from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). You understand that longwinded analytical or philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
Yes. Over xmas might be days when I can't but will let you know.
4. You commit to responding to questions with utmost honesty.
Yes
5. You are comfortable setting aside all other teachings, philosophies and “isms” for the remainder of this investigation. This means you will put all your effort and attention into seeing reality as it is here in this investigation. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
Yes
6. Please read our disclaimer and have a look at the introductory materials: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
Yes
I look forward to working with you too.

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:52 am

Excellent, thanks. As you are in the UK and I on the west coast of the US (-8GMT) I will send you my notes in the evening my time so you will have them morning your time. You can consider the question as you need and have time to respond. And I agree, with the holiday we will have to work through the ups and down. No worries.

So let's get started. To set the state walk me through the history of your seeking. Write as much or as little as you like. Let's get it all out on the table and have a look.

Thanks

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Pandapop
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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby Pandapop » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:01 am

Hmm where to start? Well I've been drawn to buddhism for a long time and have meditated on and off for years but mainly as a way to make myself feel better when things feel rough and looking to get somewhere better than here ie. enlightenment. Over the past year have become more familiar with the idea of accepting the suffering and not trying to move away from it which has been really hard as have experienced some intense suffering. I have experienced everything feeling pointless, only wanting to look inward, feeling intense negative emotions, seeing all that I am that I don't like, just wanting to run away from where I am. But not depression, I've been depressed in the past and this wasn't that, as the energy would move and shift all the time. And at times I have really really wanted to see, and at times I have glimpsed myself falling away but then I quickly reappear, notice what just happened, question what just happened.
Right now I am in a good space and my instinct is to run away and not look, looking feels scary and threatening and if I am happy right now, why look? Wanting to hang onto myself and wanting to let go of myself at the same time. So right now I'm not really doing anything. Not doing yoga, not meditating, feeling a bit scared to look, feeling like I might lose something in the process that I like and need. But at the same time wanting to make that leap and hoping it will be worth it. Does that make sense?

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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:21 am

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing it.

There are a lot of statements in your paragraph about being in a place "here" and either wanting (or not wanting) to go to another place "there." Examples are:

"as a way to make myself feel better when things feel rough"

"just wanting to run away from where I am."

"I have really really wanted to see"
Let's dig into that a little bit together. Take a look at what you wrote here:

"my instinct is to run away and not look, looking feels scary and threatening and if I am happy right now, why look?"…"like I might lose something in the process that I like and need"
What do you think you might lose?

You also wrote:

wanting to make that leap and hoping it will be worth it.
Tell me what you think will happen after you make the leap and you find it is worth it? What do you think will have changed?

Thanks for digging in there.

Cheers

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Pandapop
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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby Pandapop » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:07 am

What do you think you might lose?
I might lose 'me'. As I write it I know that 'me' is not a real thing but it feels real and I quite like having it around at the moment.

Tell me what you think will happen after you make the leap and you find it is worth it? What do you think will have changed?
I don't really know, I think that's the problem that I want to know. What if things are worse than they are now? Maybe I'd be better staying like I am and holding onto 'me'. I hope I would be less emotionally reactive and therefore have a more peaceful life and be able to be of more benefit to other people, to be less caught up in stories and so be a better role model for my children.
As I am typing this I feel scared. I just want to run away.

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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:12 am

Thanks very much for your comments. Let’s work through some of these concepts. This statement:
What if things are worse than they are now?
Here is an exercise: When you read these words and entertain these thoughts, describe in writing here the sensations you feel in your body. Describe the experience of these thoughts in terms of the sensations they create.
I hope I would be less emotionally reactive and therefore have a more peaceful life and be able to be of more benefit to other people, to be less caught up in stories and so be a better role model for my children.
Can you see how the images of a peaceful life and being a role model are pictures of a potential that are simply thoughts? Comment on what is thought here, versus what is real.
I might lose 'me’
Awakening is seeing things for what they are. Nothing is lost. When you see an optical illusion for what it is the picture does not disappear. You see it differently. Keep that in mind as you explore the sensations that arise from your thoughts.

Keep after it! Thanks for engaging in this discussion.

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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby Pandapop » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:35 am

What if things are worse than they are now?
Looking, searching for something, some feeling. Feel a tension in my gut, tight and almost painful, then lessening.Then tension in my back, tense, tense, then lessening, then opening then feeling like too much, panic, then letting go a bit. Then tension, then a bit of boredom and impatience. OK that's enough for now. And then a loosening and a breathing and an unwinding. Yes enough for now, it's late and I want to go to bed.
I hope I would be less emotionally reactive and therefore have a more peaceful life and be able to be of more benefit to other people, to be less caught up in stories and so be a better role model for my children.


Can you see how the images of a peaceful life and being a role model are pictures of a potential that are simply thoughts? Comment on what is thought here, versus what is real.
Hmm, what is thought here is how I want things to be, a picture of something better, somewhere better than here. something I can move towards but probably never actually get to. A striving for a kind of perfection.
What is real - what is real is what is here now in this moment, me as I am now, imperfect, flawed, prone to make mistakes. But is that real? Isn't that just a thought. Ok feels like I am going to start chasing myself around in circles now. In the same way that I do always wanting to be perfect in the first place. Making it all unachievable because it's always something to be moving towards. Not what is here now. But I think this is my thinking coming up with this answer and now I am going to get bored and impatient with this chasing around in circles. Bored. Impatient. Stuck. Feeling the tension in my upper gut again, moving up, up. But stuck stuck in my right side. OK shifting now. Think that might be enough for now.

Thank you for having this discussion with me x

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:24 am

Contrast this statement:
Looking, searching for something, some feeling.
With this one:
Feel a tension in my gut, tight and almost painful, then lessening..
The first is thought, the second a description of your direct experience.
Hmm, what is thought here is how I want things to be, a picture of something better, somewhere better than here. something I can move towards but probably never actually get to. A striving for a kind of perfection.
This is a clear statement.
What is real is what is here now in this moment
This too is a clear statement.

And you go on to say more in that statement:
"me as I am now…"
Lets explore this idea of me in this exercise:
Take an apple, an orange or anything handy and put it on the table before you. Close your eyes and imagine that object. Imagine its folds, its color, how it looks. Then open your eyes and look at the object. Notice the difference between your imagination and the reality what you see with your eyes.

Now close your eyes and think about yourself. Who you are, what you aspire to, what people think of you. Play those images out fully. Then open your eyes. What“you” do you see? Can you see a "me"?

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Pandapop
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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby Pandapop » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:02 am

Am away for a couple of days with my family so no time on my own and need to focus on this to respond properly. Will try and get some time alone tomorrow evening but if not possible will be home Tuesday so will definitely respond then. Thankyou x

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QuantSelfLaFont
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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:31 am

No problem at all. I appreciate you for engaging in this, and your honesty comes through clearly. Enjoy family time and let's pick up when you have a chance to sit with the discussion and come back with thoughts. It is the holiday after all! Cheers

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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby Pandapop » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:40 pm

Got some time alone. Ok, so what you do I see? Well I see my phyical form which is my body, although when I focus on that even its hard to see it as it's not fixed but has changed over time but the idea of my body is quite strong. And then there are the ideas that comprise me, job, beliefs, relationships, memories, ideas but again if I focus on none of them are fixed so if I try and pin something down there is nothing specific there. But again the idea of me is quite strong. Very strong because even though I can see logically that there is no concrete fixed me, I still can conjure one up which holds pretty strong so long as I don't focus too closely. So I can see I don't really exist but I like to pretend that I do. So I'm sitting here now being with that idea. Feeling strange, slightly threatening. Feeling like I am disappearing but at same time know I am not here to start with. Got to go now x

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Re: Anyone want to take a walk to the Gate? I'll point the w

Postby QuantSelfLaFont » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:17 am

Thank you for breaking free during the holiday to continue the exploration. Its a busy time and I appreciate you for the effort. Let’s look at some things you shared.

You start here with some good noticing:
I see my physical form which is my body, although when I focus on that even its hard to see it as it's not fixed but has changed over time
Then you nullify it with this statement.
but the idea of my body is quite strong.
Look at how the difficulty in fixing the changing body is nullified by an idea about the body that feels “quite strong.” Just take a bit to think about that.

Now lets move to the next statement. There is this excellent noticing:
And then there are the ideas that comprise me, job, beliefs, relationships, memories, ideas but again if I focus on none of them are fixed so if I try and pin something down there is nothing specific there.
Which you nullify with this followup:
But again the idea of me is quite strong.
Exercise: Hold in your mind your statements about not being able to pin down job, beliefs, relationships, memories, and body from above, then tell me about the idea of you that is so strong. Really sit in that and tell me what you find in this idea. What is this idea of you?

Thanks again for the work. I appreciate the thoughtful effort.


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