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Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:21 pm
by loftygoal
Thanks for the video

I have to find the answer myself. It is clearer than when I started the thread (but not clear enough). The "I" now seems an illusionary thing that just built itself. I am better off trusting my body than my mind for accurate answers. The essential question is how does surrender happen? I already do meditation and it can take some time with that which is okay. It can even happen right now. How do I let it happen and not come its way? I'll be with this question for a day or two and will report you what comes.

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:27 pm
by loftygoal
Hi Vince,

I looked into myself why I even want enlightenment or awakening in the first place. I used to tell everyone I do spiritual practices because I wanted to know the truth, realize god blah blah. When I really looked into myself, here is what I found

Why do I want enlightenment? Because of all the things it does to "me". There are obvious benifits of being free from suffering and all but the primary thing that motivates me is the sense of achievement of a lofty goal, the approval and recognition and possibly fame that it brings for me in the eyes of others (relatives, friends, society and even complete strangers). That I have achieved something that very few people could. That I have such intelligence, a rarity that puts me in an elite group and above the rest.

What would approval, recognition & fame give me? Would I be satisfied if I got them through some other means say making a world famous invention or becoming the new chess world champion? Would it be the same?

The other reason why spirituality seems attractive is due to my desire to develop myself and to become the best i can. what will becoming the best i can or continually developing myself give me? Will I be able to accept if I reach the end of my best and cannot push further? Will I be able to accept if my best turns out nothing compared to others' best? Is it due to a feeling that I am incomplete?

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:21 pm
by vinceschubert
good stuff, let's call it the story of Sam's aspirations.
Have you ever asked yourself why so many of the worlds best achievers have committed suicide ?
They have adulation, fame, money yet they drug out searching for the missing bit.
What is it, that missing bit ?

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:06 am
by loftygoal
They must have felt that all that they have doesnt bring them the happiness they want. The seeking continues to find that something which will.

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:08 am
by loftygoal
and that missing bit is the realization of the fact that nothing is missing. that there's nothing out there that completes them and they already are complete.

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:14 am
by vinceschubert
and that missing bit is the realization of the fact that nothing is missing. that there's nothing out there that completes them and they already are complete.
Do you understand this ?

Do you believe this ?

Do you SEE this ?

Do you Know this ?

What is your relationship to "the realization of the fact that nothing is missing" ?

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:24 am
by loftygoal
I understand that. Intellectual knowing

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:31 am
by vinceschubert
ok, answer the others...

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:38 am
by loftygoal
Do you understand this ?

I understand this as an incomplete feeling or needing something else to feel complete

Do you believe this ?

Yes

Do you SEE this ?

No

Do you Know this ?

Intellectually yes

What is your relationship to "the realization of the fact that nothing is missing" ?

Something feels missing

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:56 am
by vinceschubert
So we need to find something to put it back. The missing bit.
We need to Add something.
We need to add it to What ?


i just saw this;
incomplete feeling ... to feel complete ... Something feels missing
We are controlled by a feeling.
You've got an itch - it has to be scratched.

Do you think your thoughts Mean something ?

Do you think your feelings Mean something ?

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:28 am
by loftygoal
So we need to find something to put it back. The missing bit.
We need to Add something.
We need to add it to What ?
Peace 24/7 is what is missing. It needs to be felt or to be added to my set of feelings
We are controlled by a feeling.
You've got an itch - it has to be scratched.

Do you think your thoughts Mean something ?

Do you think your feelings Mean something ?
Thoughts generate feelings (painful or pleasureful). I try to run away from painful and towards pleasureful because it feels bad/good in my body

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:21 am
by vinceschubert
Peace is the 'state' when everything that disturbes it is removed.
Peace is the Natural state.
It's not something that can be added.
[quote=]Thoughts generate feelings[/quote]
This is true. And you can see it.
Can you see it happen ?
Can you see thought causing emotion ?

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:38 pm
by loftygoal
This is true. And you can see it.
Can you see it happen ?
Can you see thought causing emotion ?
Not all the details. I see a "bully" at work doing something (or even just their presence) that causes these emotions to trigger up. When they do something, for example like pointing out my mistake in an email copying everyone, my thoughts about "what others might think of me" or "they shud have said this in private" or "their intention is to point me out" or "they always do this" etc... causes the emotions to stir up.

When it is their presence, I think emotions are triggered up basing on what they have done in the past or what they are going to do now.

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:00 pm
by vinceschubert
Ok, emotions are the bodies reaction to thought.
Everything you want to change is thought, do you see that ?
Thoughts just arise, that is they come from brain activity that is the result of habit (brain conditioning)
You can't control thoughts.
So what can you do ?
Can you choose to not get sucked in by a thought ?
The answer is Yes.
If you see THAT a thought is occurring, then you have a choice to ignore it or not.
Sam, let me ask you again, is there you anywhere that is not constructed of thought ?

Re: In here Sam...

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:23 pm
by loftygoal
I sense a self which is a feeling which in turn comes from believing the thought. So No; there is no me that is not constructed of a thought