Would someone like to guide me please?

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tulsi
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Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby tulsi » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:59 pm

Hi there,
I am looking for a guide who has enough patience to try to guide me through the gate:)
I have been searching for few years now mainly through traveling,reading, yoga and meditation...something helped more than other but still looking...My partner has recently gone through the gate and it has been an amazing experience...for both of us.
Love,
Jitka

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Canfora
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby Canfora » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:49 pm

Hi Jitka and welcome to LU. I'm Sandra and I'll be happy to be your guide.

This is what I ask from you:

Post at least once a day.
Be honest with yourself and with me.
Be open to look to experience with fresh eyes.
Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation - stop reading about non duality and other similar stuff - reading the threads in the forum, the other content of this site or LU book it's fine.

This is your inquiry, all I do here is pointing to where you can look next.

If all this is OK with you and you also confirm that you read these pages:

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_FAQ.html

we can begin:

You said that your partner has recently gone through the gate and it has been an amazing experience for both of you. Can you please describe if something changed for you, in terms of what is experienced as reality?

What are your expectations about what will change by passing through the gate?

Looking forward to your answers!

Love,
Sandra

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tulsi
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby tulsi » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:52 am

Hi Sandra,
thank you so much for your reply!
Yes, I have read those pages and understand what is asked of me, thanks.

It was incredibly intense and very fast process for my partner..now the intensity is wearing off and he is "coming back to the ground".
My reality (or what is experienced as reality) has not changed that much. He seems more relaxed, radiant and at ease with life which naturally makes me feel the same way. It all happened very recently so we talk about it a lot and I have like million questions and want to see myself.

I am aware that the experience is not same for everyone. I do not expect that my process would be the same as his. Not at all.
All I want is to see the truth. I do not expect to get rid of suffering but to be able to "handle it better".
It is funny but when I am thinking what to write this scene from Matrix film pops out in my mind.. When Neo is supposed to decide which pill to take, blue or red. That's how I feel. I want to see. The red one for me please:)
Lots of love, J.

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Canfora
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby Canfora » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:31 pm

Hi Jitka and thank you for your post, it made me smile :)

Happy to know that you're not expecting this experience to match your partners and that you don't have unrealistic expectations.
It is funny but when I am thinking what to write this scene from Matrix film pops out in my mind.. When Neo is supposed to decide which pill to take, blue or red. That's how I feel. I want to see. The red one for me please:)
Wonderful. Let's start.

If I say that this 'me', this you, this Jitka never existed and doesn't exist, it's just an illusion, what is experienced?
What thoughts appear, what is felt?
Please describe.

At this moment, here and now, can you find anything you can point to and say 'this is me'?
What exactly?

Looking forward to read your answers!

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tulsi
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby tulsi » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:11 pm

Hi Sandra,
thank you.
If I say that this 'me', this you, this Jitka never existed and doesn't exist, it's just an illusion, what is experienced?
What thoughts appear, what is felt?
Ok, firstly thoughts like " yeah right, I have heard that before, interesting theory, but what you really mean by it huh? What do you mean I don't exist? I do...here I am!!"

Later when I really let it sink in this unease and fear arise and thoughts like" If there is no Jitka and never has been, what have I been and believing in all my life? " This story of my life, this identity with my past, my memories, my relationships, how people perceive me and know me. I feel tightness in my chest and part of me wants to run away. My heartbeat fastens and I have this strange feeling of fear and excitement at the same time....like part of me wanna dive in and part is holding me back...very strange.
At this moment, here and now, can you find anything you can point to and say 'this is me'?
What exactly?
Well, I can point to my body, touch my body on different parts and say this is me-but that wouldn't be true. That is just my body, flesh, bones, muscles. Or I looked at a photo of myself and can say: this is me-but actually it is not, just a picture of my face, my body again.
When I actually really try to look for "me" I can't really point to anything in particular and say: "oh I got it, this IS me!"...very strange. I have never thought about it like that....I almost feel like crying and I don't know why...

However I still have very strong sense of "self"...this familiar feeling of my "personality", my memories, my past, my relationships, my experience in life, my fears, insecurities, things I want to improve, thoughts I believed about myself. How my parents "made me". I feel attachment to something....I can feel it in my chest and head, behind me eyes...this "me" but can't really explain it or point it out.
Brrrrr, this weird feeling of excitement and unease is here again...very strange.

xxx

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Canfora
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby Canfora » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:44 pm

Later when I really let it sink in this unease and fear arise and thoughts like" If there is no Jitka and never has been, what have I been and believing in all my life? " This story of my life, this identity with my past, my memories, my relationships, how people perceive me and know me. I feel tightness in my chest and part of me wants to run away. My heartbeat fastens and I have this strange feeling of fear and excitement at the same time....like part of me wanna dive in and part is holding me back...very strange.
If strong sensations arise, look with curiosity to what is happening, like if it's the first time you experience it.
If you look directly to this fear and excitement what do you see?
Could they be the same type of energy - not what the concepts 'fear' and 'excitment' point to - just a strong energy, that after being felt thought label as 'fear' and 'excitment'?
If you look to what's there before thoughts, what do you see happening?
Is it really 'fear' and 'excitement'?
Does it change if you look at it? Is it permanent?

If you also look to the origin, to what's making all this appear, what do you find?
What is there? Can you see a you, a Jitka behind the sensations?
Well, I can point to my body, touch my body on different parts and say this is me-but that wouldn't be true. That is just my body, flesh, bones, muscles. Or I looked at a photo of myself and can say: this is me-but actually it is not, just a picture of my face, my body again.
When I actually really try to look for "me" I can't really point to anything in particular and say: "oh I got it, this IS me!"...very strange. I have never thought about it like that....I almost feel like crying and I don't know why...

Isn't amazing to see that something we think is the absolute truth can be an illusion?
There is nothing real that can be lost Jitka and no motive to be afraid. If the separate self never existed then what is being experienced is already the experience of 'no self'.
However I still have very strong sense of "self"...this familiar feeling of my "personality", my memories, my past, my relationships, my experience in life, my fears, insecurities, things I want to improve, thoughts I believed about myself. How my parents "made me". I feel attachment to something....I can feel it in my chest and head, behind me eyes...this "me" but can't really explain it or point it out.
You're talking about two things here. Sense of self and memories/thoughts.

I would like you to read this article: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html, that explains direct experience.

When you talk about the strong sense of self, is this sense of self what the article describes as an unmistakable sense of Aliveness (presence, being)?

If you look to what is happening in experience and compare it with the article, do you agree that for the purposes of investigation, your experience can be divided in thought, sensations and an unmistakable sense of Aliveness?

Don't believe anything I or anyone says - see for yourself! Then talk with me about what you found looking to the fear and what you see being experienced.

xxx

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tulsi
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby tulsi » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:27 pm

If strong sensations arise, look with curiosity to what is happening, like if it's the first time you experience it.
If you look directly to this fear and excitement what do you see?
Could they be the same type of energy - not what the concepts 'fear' and 'excitment' point to - just a strong energy, that after being felt thought label as 'fear' and 'excitment'?
If you look to what's there before thoughts, what do you see happening?
Is it really 'fear' and 'excitement'?
Does it change if you look at it? Is it permanent?


Yes, before the thoughts start labeling it as fear or excitement it is just strong energy. Strong energy coming up. And yes indeed it could be, actually, it is the same type of energy...then my mind jumps in and labels it.
Before the thoughts come there is nothing there, just observing this energy coming up.
When I look at it I just observe it and it comes from anywhere and goes away again. No, it is not permanent at all.
If you also look to the origin, to what's making all this appear, what do you find?
What is there? Can you see a you, a Jitka behind the sensations?
Nothing, I found nothing. It just appears and disappears. There is no beginning, no origin. It comes and goes, can't control it, no Jitka there. Just sensation, energy....
If the separate self never existed then what is being experienced is already the experience of 'no self'.
I love that quote Canfora, it is beautiful.
If you look to what is happening in experience and compare it with the article, do you agree that for the purposes of investigation, your experience can be divided in thought, sensations and an unmistakable sense of Aliveness?
yes, the article made it bit clearer now, thanks.

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Canfora
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby Canfora » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:44 pm

So what are you and where are you?
What is keeping the illusion in place?
Look and tell me, please.

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tulsi
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby tulsi » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:14 am

Hi Sandra,
I am busy all day today. I will write tomorrow again. Have a good day xx

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tulsi
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby tulsi » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:12 pm

Hi Sandra,
I was told yesterday that my friend had accidentally died. I am still in a state of shock. I will try to post later today
as I cant really concentrate etc. xxx

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Canfora
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby Canfora » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:39 pm

Hi Jitka, sorry to hear about the death of your friend. Take care of you the best you can and return when you feel ready to do this. I will be here for you.

Much love,
Sandra

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tulsi
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby tulsi » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:57 pm

HI Sandra,
I am back.
Thank you for your kindness.

Go back to your questions....
So what are you and where are you?
What is keeping the illusion in place?
Look and tell me, please.
Honestly..I still don't know. When I do get the concept and yes I did feel it that time that thoughts come and go and about the sensations arising but I still feel strong identification with "myself". And it is not that Alivness the article talks about it is thoughts patterns i still keep identifying with.

I think I will need some examples, exercises to look deeper and experiment with it.
Hope to hear from you soon and thanks for your patience.
Love J.

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tulsi
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby tulsi » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:02 pm

Oh yeah and one more thing to share with you.
I woke up this morning from a dream when someone kept asking me repeatedly :"who is behind yourself?" and I kept shouting back: "no one, no one!" I found it quite interesting and woke up with a smile on my face....
just to share :)

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Canfora
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby Canfora » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:21 pm

Hi Jitka, I'm happy to see you back.
Oh yeah and one more thing to share with you.
I woke up this morning from a dream when someone kept asking me repeatedly :"who is behind yourself?" and I kept shouting back: "no one, no one!" I found it quite interesting and woke up with a smile on my face....
just to share :)
That sure is interesting, dreams can be fascinating, the way they mirror sometimes what is going on!
Honestly..I still don't know.
Isn't this in the least amazing? If a separate self exists in reality, it should be as easy to find as the computer you are typing on.

Thank you for your honesty and don't worry, there is no need to rush, let's do this a step at a time, letting things flow - as they always do :)
it is thoughts patterns i still keep identifying with.
Are you talking about the story of "you"?
I think I will need some examples, exercises to look deeper and experiment with it.
You can start with this:

Go to a confortable place, sit or lie down, relax, close your eyes and play/think the story of Jitka, like if you were in a cinema, seeing your favorite movie.
Make the story as real as possible: you are Jitka, living life and existing without a doubt!
Feel being Jitka and doing what Jitka does.
The past story, the present story, the future story of Jitka's life - make them be...
Take the time to make this Jitka as real as she can be.

Then open your eyes.

What happens with Jitka when you look?
What are the stories made of in DE?
Without the stories, what makes this you real - again, look first and answer from what you can sense in reality.

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tulsi
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Re: Would someone like to guide me please?

Postby tulsi » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:06 pm

Hi Sandra,
thank you for the exercise. It was quite interesting. Ok what I found out...
What happens with Jitka when you look?
What are the stories made of in DE?
Without the stories, what makes this you real - again, look first and answer from what you can sense in reality.
I projected all my life like I was in a cinema. From first vague memory until the present and actually a bit into the future. wow what a journey! I saw myself going through different stages of life, people I have met, things I have done, one after the other, remembering actually how I felt that long time ago, sensations were coming up, lots of pleasant and few unpleasant feelings, I was in a centre of everything, I felt strong identification with myself, my past, memories...but then somewhere there though I thought, wow how many things I have done, so many places I have been....and then it started feeling like actually all those things happened to me, not that I have actually done them....like I was just flowing through life and different events, things happened and took me into certain direction. Like coincidences I was just following...
When I opened my eyes it all disappeared like when you burst a bubble! I was looking around the room I could not see Jitka anywhere, I couldn't actually point to myself or see myself. I did not see Jitka at all! I felt very present, just looking around the room. Feeling aliveness but no images...before the thoughts came and started making stories again:)
The stories are made of thoughts, memories, images,sensations, feelings good or bad, identification with them and labeling them as "mine". Jitka is in a centre of everything happening.
Without the stories it feels like there is my body my mind. I feel this sense of aliveness I can feel I am alive, touch my body, feeling sensations but nothing to hang onto, nothing to point and say this is me because there is no story of me? Does it make any sense?;)


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