"Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

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moxley
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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby moxley » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:16 pm

Indeed, if there is no self, no "me", then who is doing the deceiving, and who is being deceived?
Well, the only valid answer I can come up with is "No-one ist deceiving no-one". That begs the question of course, "how is that even possible?" Furthermore, if that really were the case, then there wouldn't be any need for having this kind of thread? Or would it??
Look at the contraction. Is there a "you" contracting? Or is there just contraction?

Look at the shaky hands. Is there a "you" shaking "your" hands? Or are they just shaking?

Look at the looking (the staring). Is there a "you" doing the staring? Or is there just staring happening?
There is no me in all of that.


After writing my last post, those nervous contractions came up again, and I was having thoughts like "that poor guy/body, he is tensing up so much for no reason.", and I felt a sincere feeling of disidentification from the body for a couple of moments.

However, since I was THINKING these things, there must be something flawed with that "insight". Could it be that I was just replacing the old sense of me (body/mind) by a new, more distant one. At that moment it felt like "I" was some sort of entity that is just occupying "this" body and able to feel his sensations, hear his thoughts and so on.

Somehow it felt a little more clear to me when I posted last, now doubts have come up again. Did I really SEE all these things myself, or am I just deceiving myself again by sensing and rephrasing things I read elsewhere. Today everything feels just like it did before. I am still missing that subtle lasting shift in perception and view of self.

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Pratityasamutpada
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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby Pratityasamutpada » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:40 pm

Somehow it felt a little more clear to me when I posted last, now doubts have come up again. Did I really SEE all these things myself, or am I just deceiving myself again by sensing and rephrasing things I read elsewhere. Today everything feels just like it did before. I am still missing that subtle lasting shift in perception and view of self.
Describe to me what you saw. Then describe to me the "you" entity that saw it.
After writing my last post, those nervous contractions came up again, and I was having thoughts like "that poor guy/body, he is tensing up so much for no reason.", and I felt a sincere feeling of disidentification from the body for a couple of moments.
Can you describe what it was that disidentified from the body?

Next, try the following. Really do it, right now, run the experiment (and remember, any questions I ask are meant to be answered by running the experiment, even if I don't say "run the experiment"). Rest your left hand on the keyboard. Look at it as if it's just some weird thing. Is there a separete entity doing the disidentification? Is there something leaving the left hand behind?

Keep resting the left hand and keep looking at it as if it's just some weird thing. Now lift the other one, the right hand. Now with the index finger of the right hand, touch the left hand. Is there a separate entity in control of the right hand touching the left hand?

Left hand is disidentified from, right hand is identified with, is there an actual "you" experiencing and manipulating either of the hands? Or is there just touching hands and awareness of touch and sight and sound? Does the feeling of identification or disidentification change anything about the presence or absence of an actual "you"?
However, since I was THINKING these things, there must be something flawed with that "insight". Could it be that I was just replacing the old sense of me (body/mind) by a new, more distant one. At that moment it felt like "I" was some sort of entity that is just occupying "this" body and able to feel his sensations, hear his thoughts and so on.
The feeling of "you" (sense of self) constantly changes. Sometimes very distant. It can feel like you said, like a "you" occupying the body, or maybe occupying only the mind. But how it feels, is that how it really is? Run the experiment, find this feeling, look at it, is there an actual "you" entity to be found behind the feeling, or somehow causing the feeling? Does the body need that feeling of "you" to do stuff? To breathe? To walk? To take a dump? To fall asleep? Or can it do all those things whether it feels like "you" are doing them or not?

Now look at thoughts. It "feels" like there is a "you" entity thinking those thoughts. But is that actually true? When looking at thoughts, do they need a "you" entity that is causing the thoughts? Keep looking, find out if there is.

Then run the next experiment, keep looking again at thoughts. Is there a "you" entity to be found which is "doing" the looking, or is there just looking going on?
Well, the only valid answer I can come up with is "No-one ist deceiving no-one". That begs the question of course, "how is that even possible?" Furthermore, if that really were the case, then there wouldn't be any need for having this kind of thread? Or would it??
No-one is blowing the wind. No-one is growing the grass. No-one is beating your heart. No-one is digesting your food. Yet all of those things are happening. They are all happening without a separate little "you" entity to make them happen, because none of those things ever needed a separate little "you" entity to happen. Does deception really need a separate entity to happen? Throughout the day, look around outside and inside, can you find an example of anything, anything at all, that requires a separate entity to happen?

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moxley
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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby moxley » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:31 am

Describe to me what you saw. Then describe to me the "you" entity that saw it.
Can you describe what it was that disidentified from the body?
Taking the risk of sounding pretty dumb, I am gonna use the following analogy to describe what that disidentification felt like. At that time it was like I was some higher being (living in another dimension maybe, unable to die) which is occupying this body and mind for this very lifetime (before going into the next body maybe), and that I (this uber-being) am normally not aware of that fact while I am "in" someone. Only when I have glimpses of "waking up" do I realize the "real" me. At that point I shortly felt really sorry for "Christian" and the unnecessary pain he is putting himself through.

Does this sound very silly?? I sure feel silly writing this, but this is the closest to the feeling that I can remember.
Left hand is disidentified from, right hand is identified with, is there an actual "you" experiencing and manipulating either of the hands? Or is there just touching hands and awareness of touch and sight and sound? Does the feeling of identification or disidentification change anything about the presence or absence of an actual "you"?
Jeesh, I just cannot answer that, I really have no idea what this all is even supposed to mean. I can't just strongly identify with one hand and disidentify with the other at will. The difference is sooo effin subtle. I have the feeling that you are pushing my nose right into what I need to see and I am still unable to just see it. Man this is frustrating right now.
The feeling of "you" (sense of self) constantly changes. Sometimes very distant. It can feel like you said, like a "you" occupying the body, or maybe occupying only the mind. But how it feels, is that how it really is? Run the experiment, find this feeling, look at it, is there an actual "you" entity to be found behind the feeling, or somehow causing the feeling? Does the body need that feeling of "you" to do stuff? To breathe? To walk? To take a dump? To fall asleep? Or can it do all those things whether it feels like "you" are doing them or not?

Now look at thoughts. It "feels" like there is a "you" entity thinking those thoughts. But is that actually true? When looking at thoughts, do they need a "you" entity that is causing the thoughts? Keep looking, find out if there is.

Then run the next experiment, keep looking again at thoughts. Is there a "you" entity to be found which is "doing" the looking, or is there just looking going on?
Again, I really don't know what to answer to all of this. I try to keep looking, but I just CANT see anything that is really important or different, and I just dont WANT to give the same old answers that I know I should be giving. I don't wanna PASS anything, I just wanna SEE it.


I am sorry if I'm making this hard for you, I hope you believe me when I say that I'm really trying, it just feels like I am running against a wall again and again.


One more thing I want to mention though, is that lately I keep coming back to this feeling of experience in "time-slices" that we talked about earlier. I felt this very strongly this morning after openin my eyes and looking around the room. I felt somehow "trapped" one dimension below the time dimension, and it felt really clear to me how completely unreachable even the near past or future (i.e. seconds) is, not just in a poetic way, but actually very real somehow. Don't know if this has any meaning or if it's just pushing me farther from the real truth.

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Pratityasamutpada
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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby Pratityasamutpada » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:16 pm

Taking the risk of sounding pretty dumb, I am gonna use the following analogy to describe what that disidentification felt like. At that time it was like I was some higher being (living in another dimension maybe, unable to die) which is occupying this body and mind for this very lifetime (before going into the next body maybe), and that I (this uber-being) am normally not aware of that fact while I am "in" someone. Only when I have glimpses of "waking up" do I realize the "real" me. At that point I shortly felt really sorry for "Christian" and the unnecessary pain he is putting himself through.

Does this sound very silly?? I sure feel silly writing this, but this is the closest to the feeling that I can remember.
Don't worry about sounding dumb or silly, Christian. This entire process hinges on being brutally honest and sincere in looking at experience and the way it is perceived. And it's not going to work if you can't be open about it. About everything. Mostly to yourself, but since I'm meant to guide you in this, you'll have to be equally open to me. Also that will actually help you to see what things you're reluctant to be open about. In general, those are the things that especially warrant honest and sincere attention. So I'm very happy that you are willing to do just that.

As you undoubtedly know, perception is shaped by beliefs. So to take an honest look at that, means to ask yourself how the way things are perceived actually relate to reality. Would you say that whether you believe something or not, has any impact on whether it's actually true?
Jeesh, I just cannot answer that, I really have no idea what this all is even supposed to mean. I can't just strongly identify with one hand and disidentify with the other at will. The difference is sooo effin subtle. I have the feeling that you are pushing my nose right into what I need to see and I am still unable to just see it. Man this is frustrating right now.
It's not a problem. It doesn't have to be strong, it can be as subtle as you like. Or if this experiment just isn't doing anything for you, well then that is the result of the experiment. But it seems that you're trying to see more into the things that I'm pointing out, than are actually there. All that we're doing here is just looking at plain, bare, down-to-earth reality, just as it is, whatever it is. So just stick with whatever you can see, hear, feel, taste, smell. Stick with whatever is actually there, not with whatever you imagine you're supposed to find.
Again, I really don't know what to answer to all of this. I try to keep looking, but I just CANT see anything that is really important or different, and I just dont WANT to give the same old answers that I know I should be giving. I don't wanna PASS anything, I just wanna SEE it.

I am sorry if I'm making this hard for you, I hope you believe me when I say that I'm really trying, it just feels like I am running against a wall again and again.
This is great, mate, and you are absolutely right: Drop all those "shoulds" and "should nots", don't think or talk or write about what you think I want to hear, what you think you should tell me, not even what you think you're supposed to see. What you think is not important right now, only what you know. And what you know is only what comes in through the senses. If you just want to pass something, you've already failed. So you're on the right track! Don't apologize for it.
One more thing I want to mention though, is that lately I keep coming back to this feeling of experience in "time-slices" that we talked about earlier. I felt this very strongly this morning after openin my eyes and looking around the room. I felt somehow "trapped" one dimension below the time dimension, and it felt really clear to me how completely unreachable even the near past or future (i.e. seconds) is, not just in a poetic way, but actually very real somehow. Don't know if this has any meaning or if it's just pushing me farther from the real truth.
It is relevant, yes. Forget about that idea of timeslices for a moment, it's a neat stepping stone but now you can let go of it. When looking at reality, instead of thinking about it, what is being observed is once again just that which comes in through the senses. And what comes in through the senses is what comes in through the senses NOW, without any kind of access to what came in through the senses before or what may come in through the senses after.

Apparently this felt to you as if being trapped "below time" somehow. But ask yourself, is time something which comes in through the senses? Or does the notion of time only arise from thinking ABOUT whatever has come in through the senses before and whatever is expected to come in through the senses later?

Turns out that the theme of this post is the senses (subjectively) and the now (which are intimately linked), and the discovery of them which happens when imagination, expectation, etc. are put aside. Let me know how that sits with you so far.

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moxley
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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby moxley » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:28 am

As you undoubtedly know, perception is shaped by beliefs. So to take an honest look at that, means to ask yourself how the way things are perceived actually relate to reality. Would you say that whether you believe something or not, has any impact on whether it's actually true?
To be honest, the word "true" is getting a kind of blurry meaning to me lately. What does that mean anyways? Is true something that many people would agree on? Like "snow is white"? Or is it just that which I can perceive for myself at this very moment? If I would wholeheartedly believe that snow is NOT white, then that is true for me in that moment, right? Even if everyone else will disagree.
It's not a problem. It doesn't have to be strong, it can be as subtle as you like. Or if this experiment just isn't doing anything for you, well then that is the result of the experiment. But it seems that you're trying to see more into the things that I'm pointing out, than are actually there. All that we're doing here is just looking at plain, bare, down-to-earth reality, just as it is, whatever it is. So just stick with whatever you can see, hear, feel, taste, smell. Stick with whatever is actually there, not with whatever you imagine you're supposed to find.
I get these glimpses of certain sensations not feeling as "me", but there are certainly ones for which feeling this way is very hard and even exhausting to try, for instance when there are sensations of heavy tiredness, anger or pain. It really feels like I am having these and no-one else.
And what comes in through the senses is what comes in through the senses NOW, without any kind of access to what came in through the senses before or what may come in through the senses after.
Thats a very accurate description of what I am feeling as well. Sometimes I even get the feeling that "the real truth"or "that which I need to see" is always just a second ahead of me, and I just need to synchronize just a wee bit better to just catch it. But then again, this is just another idea or concept, and I will try my best to follow your advice and not chase it too much.
Turns out that the theme of this post is the senses (subjectively) and the now (which are intimately linked), and the discovery of them which happens when imagination, expectation, etc. are put aside. Let me know how that sits with you so far.
I have to say that these moments of having a very strong feeling of "NOW" is the thing which came up most prominently for me since we started this. I am not having this feeling all the time, but multiple times a day recently. I just wonder how this is linked to the notion of no-self. When I am feeling strongly in the moment, the self is not disappearing or seen through. I probably really need to let this go and re-focus a bit.
It just seems so futile looking at just ordinary sense experience, when more or less this is what i have been doing all my life (or haven't I?).It just doesn't feel like there is much new to find in this seemingly well-known territory.

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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby Pratityasamutpada » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:36 am

Christian, get that notion out of your head that what we're trying to do here is manipulate how things feel or sense. All we're trying to do is find out if there really is a "you" that is feeling and sensing and manipulating. Keep in mind that all of these "experiments" are just ways to get you to look at what is already the case.

In the end any one way is a good as another, you could slap yourself in the face and look if there is a "you" slapping a "you", there is nothing magical about any particular strategy. And you have to set aside what you know or think you know from your meditation background for the time being.
To be honest, the word "true" is getting a kind of blurry meaning to me lately. What does that mean anyways? Is true something that many people would agree on? Like "snow is white"? Or is it just that which I can perceive for myself at this very moment? If I would wholeheartedly believe that snow is NOT white, then that is true for me in that moment, right? Even if everyone else will disagree.
True! :) But for the purpose of this forum, it's not necessary to get into that, only a distraction. Cross the gate first, then I'd love to talk more about that.

The premise here is that there is no self, and you came here to see if that's true, not to fantasize about it. The belief that snow is white is not the same kind of belief that a self exists. There is something cold and bright you can point at, and whether you call it white snow or something else makes no difference, for all intents and purposes it's still there. Not so with self, it is a concept which does not actually refer to anything in any way shape or form.
for instance when there are sensations of heavy tiredness, anger or pain. It really feels like I am having these and no-one else.
Then look at those and see if there actually is a "you" experiencing those sensations. Whenever it feels like there is a "you", look at that and see if there is an actual "you" to be found. And forget about anyone else. "There is no self" doesn't mean there is someone else's self in "your" stead. It means there is no self at all and there never was.

Do you exist? This is not a matter of questioning what existence or reality is, let's just stick with conventional everyday reality. Stub a toe and there is pain. That's real. Is there a real you?

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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby moxley » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:25 pm

Christian, get that notion out of your head that what we're trying to do here is manipulate how things feel or sense. All we're trying to do is find out if there really is a "you" that is feeling and sensing and manipulating. Keep in mind that all of these "experiments" are just ways to get you to look at what is already the case.
Thanks for reminding me of that. I think I was starting to project more into this than it really needs to be. I will try to stay a little bit more relaxed with this now and stop trying to sense some special kind of state or increased perception of reality.

I think I am starting to get this now. It's really simple and just about noticing that every moment is just made up out of many distinct (sense + thought) "impressions". We can look at them seperately if we want to, most of the time they somehow feel clumped together though.
Then look at those and see if there actually is a "you" experiencing those sensations. Whenever it feels like there is a "you", look at that and see if there is an actual "you" to be found. And forget about anyone else. "There is no self" doesn't mean there is someone else's self in "your" stead. It means there is no self at all and there never was.
Yeah, I think something in me was trying to just replace the old "me" with a new one, so that there would be something left to hold on to. But of course EVERY self is a false one.

Of course I am still wondering how this whole process (i.e. the sensations and thoughts building up a false sense of self) came into existence, how it all started, but I guess there is no point in asking these questions, the main thing is: they are just there, and they are not something that could be considered the "center" of a me.


Am I still missing something?

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Pratityasamutpada
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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby Pratityasamutpada » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:20 am

Am I still missing something?
Only the looking ;-P
I think I am starting to get this now. It's really simple and just about noticing that every moment is just made up out of many distinct (sense + thought) "impressions". We can look at them seperately if we want to, most of the time they somehow feel clumped together though.
It's about finding out if there is a "you" to which all those sense+thought impressions are happening, or is causing them to happen.

Looking at them separately is just another strategy, precisely to contrast it with the usual sense of experience being clumped together. Of course experience is experience is experience, it can't be clumped or unclumped, it can only seem to be, and that's how more illusion starts to arise out of that.

But there is actually no self in experience or behind experience or causing experience, be it clumped or unclumped. No false self, no true self, there are no authentic or forged versions of something that never existed... Now, if this is true, then you should not be able to find any self in seemingly clumped experience either.

But this is not a matter of believing what I say, or "getting it" as in making logical sense out of it. That is still only engagement with the content of thought. Reliance on the content of thought is what grants illusion its opacity. You already said as much with the white snow thing.

At least from the point of view that we're talking from, there is a distinction to be made between the devotional level, the intellectual level, and the experiential level. Believing me is devotional, making logical sense of it is the intellectual level, looking at it directly is the experiential level. So that's what we're aiming at here, putting beliefs and inference aside, and just looking at what there is actually to see.

In other words, just using all the regular senses and then examining what is actually happening with those. This includes the mind, but not by engaging in the content of thoughts. Only by watching the occurance of the thoughts as thoughts, in order to find out if there is a "you" to which the thoughts are occuring, or which is causing the thoughts to occur.

So throughout the day, as often as you can, keep looking at what's going on and what you're doing and what's happening to you, to see if you can actually find that "you" which seems to be in charge of the doing, and which seems to be the entity separate from life, to which life is happening. No need to try to take all of experience in at once, nor being very minute about every little blip on the radar. Just take it as it comes and look at it. Does an actual "you" exist?

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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby moxley » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:01 pm

I really don't know where to look any more. It seems like everything I try is going in the wrong direction. I don't even know how to make sense anymore when you say things like "Does an actual "you" exist?"

Sure, it's all made up of sensations when you look closely, but that alone can't be it, right? I am really starting to doubt again that this illusion can be seen through really clearly without excellent concentration skills gained by formal practice.

Have no idea what else to write today.

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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:17 am

vince here Christian.
Sometimes if we change the angle that we are looking from we See differently.
Let's go,
starting to doubt again that this illusion can be seen through really clearly without excellent concentration skills gained by formal practice.
Imagine you were standing somewhere in nature, looking at a tree, and you were so engrossed in your looking that you didn't notice someone coming and standing right up close behind and you then standing still, that is until you turn around and SEEING occurs with an explosion of other reactions.
Is there any training required for this SEEING to happen ?

YOU HAVE SEEN. i can tell from your posts that you have seen, But you don't believe it. "this can't be it.." you say.
Why not ? i ask.
Everything outside your direct experiencing is a Story. If you react to that story then your reaction becomes included in your direct experiencing. It's an extra and probably doesn't add anything of value to anything.
Thoughts about anything are extra. Thoughts of Doubt are an extra. If they are there, then they are there.
Seeing that they are there usually means that the moment they are seen as simply thoughts and that they have as much meaning as the sound of the refrigerator - they evaporate.
Notice, nothing DONE. Simple SEEING was all it took.
Simple SEEING along with the welcoming acceptance that THIS IS IT !
What IS, IS and there's nothing you can do about it except Add shit.
Kick back and enjoy the ride.

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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby moxley » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:27 am

Thanks a lot for the encouraging words, Vince.

I understand what you are getting at, but I think Mark is right in that I don't really have that clear grip of no-self that I was shooting for. It feels a little like everything I say comes from things I've read in the past.

You say that seeing this is as easy as recognizing someone standing behind me. I don't have that feeling so far, or maybe I really just don't know how to "turn around". There are these glimpses which I wrote about in this thread, but they are not really 100% about the no-self idea, if I'm being completely honest.

I wonder if there are some different depths of clarity when seeing this, or if it is more like a binary on/off switch. In the latter case I am probably on the "off" side. In the former case, I might have had some very very subtle insight into no-self, which didn't really stick though.

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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:46 am

Christian, i wasn't saying it was that easy, i was saying that no training was required. (in reference to your thinking "skills gained by formal practice)
I wonder if there are some different depths of clarity when seeing this, or if it is more like a binary on/off switch. In the latter case I am probably on the "off" side. In the former case, I might have had some very very subtle insight into no-self, which didn't really stick though.
Yes, absolutely, the variations of how it occurs is a varied a the number of people in the universe.
i was 'intellectual' in my approach. i had consumed 'spiritual' literature etc. for 43 years before i saw IT. Then immediately, doubts. "This can't be it, too ordinary..." etc.
Ok, do this;
BE STILL.
Go into that sensitive place where it feels like you are trying to be tiny.
You know, huddle down like you might as a kid hiding from everybody. Shut your eyes like if you can't see them then they can't see you.
Now go inside yourself, starting in your head and look for a self. Whatever it is that you call 'me'
Just for a moment keep looking down through your body right to your feet.
Can't find a 'me' anywhere in there ?
Of course not ! You are not there.
Now keeping your eyes closed, think about your left shoulder. Don't move. Just think about it.
Can you feel anything touching it without moving ? Don't move, just think about it.
Where does it stop and the space it is in start ?
Does the you that you couldn't find, own the space around your shoulder ?
Does that space just melt into what you know as your shoulder ?
Where does one stop and the other start ?
Listen ! What sounds are there. Try starting with sounds that are inside, then sounds close outside this body, then sounds further away, then the farthest away.
Instead of the sounds coming from far away and moving towards you, listen as if all sounds start in this body and move outwards (or inwards).

Do the above THEN do below;

The Sweet Spot.
When quiet and still and focused on a recognition of the fact that what is, IS, the sweet spot is appreciated.
When there is a knowing that the situation as it stands is the current situation, the sweet spot is experienced.
When there is an acceptance of everything in the Now of this life, the sweet spot is known.
When the infinite details that make up the current experiencing are seen as irrelevant to the Fact of NOW, the sweet spot is here.
When the bullshit that thought/mind is using to camouflage the actual, is accepted as part of the actual, the sweet spot is now.
When welcome acceptance of the totality of Now is present, that is the Sweet Spot.

Good if you can reply as soon as this is done.

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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby moxley » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:48 pm

Now keeping your eyes closed, think about your left shoulder. Don't move. Just think about it.
Can you feel anything touching it without moving ? Don't move, just think about it.
Where does it stop and the space it is in start ?
Does the you that you couldn't find, own the space around your shoulder ?
Does that space just melt into what you know as your shoulder ?
Where does one stop and the other start ?
I just tried that, and indeed the borders of a body part like the left shoulders are very blurry and not well-defined when trying to find it with eyes closed. There are more or less just these "blobs" of pressure/feeling. There are many of them around the body (or where the body should be - considering the eyes are closed). When I try to feel to concentrate on a certain area - say the left shoulder or the right finger or my shin - the blob around THAT area gets more pronounced than before.
Hmm, I wonder if you want me to get to the fact that I can't feel the whole body at once with eyes closed, there are these certain pressure/feeling areas and emptiness in between them (all that is specifically about the tactile sensations only).
Listen ! What sounds are there. Try starting with sounds that are inside, then sounds close outside this body, then sounds further away, then the farthest away.
Instead of the sounds coming from far away and moving towards you, listen as if all sounds start in this body and move outwards (or inwards).
I didn't really find much "inside" sounds (I guess the breathing is kinda half in, half out). The sounds from inside and outside can be treated pretty similarly though, they are just sounds, some louder, some quiet.
The Sweet Spot.
When quiet and still and focused on a recognition of the fact that what is, IS, the sweet spot is appreciated.
When there is a knowing that the situation as it stands is the current situation, the sweet spot is experienced.
When there is an acceptance of everything in the Now of this life, the sweet spot is known.
When the infinite details that make up the current experiencing are seen as irrelevant to the Fact of NOW, the sweet spot is here.
When the bullshit that thought/mind is using to camouflage the actual, is accepted as part of the actual, the sweet spot is now.
When welcome acceptance of the totality of Now is present, that is the Sweet Spot.
Not sure if I can really follow you here. Reminds me of my episodes of these feelings of the importance of the current moment that I wrote about earlier. Those were more like short states though, not real insights or anything sticking like a complete lasting change in perception. I don't feel that right now for instance. I'm also wondering if this is really about the no-self idea, or a diferent kind of 'insight'.

Sweet spot? Hmm. The current situation is just the way it is, yeah I think I get that, but it just doesn't make any big impression on me. I just gotta be missing something here.

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vinceschubert
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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:31 pm

Christian, what you showed me by your response to the last post was that you have clear and definite Expectations.
Can you do a dot point list of the characteristics of the state you are looking for. How will it be ?

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moxley
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Re: "Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

Postby moxley » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:15 pm

Hey Vince. I like to think of myself of not really having any concrete expectations of this, but obviously everybody will project at least SOMETHING when walking this path, so let me try:

I think I expect:

- a single moment of seeing very clearly and fully into this characteristic of no-self without the need of intellectual background to it
- a subtle shift in the way I see life as a whole in a way that CANNOT be undone, and will stay with me for the rest of my life (and not just have disappered the next morning)
- the ability to live a much lighter and carefree life due to this subtle change in perspective, manifesting in all kinds of ways
- finally getting that "cosmic joke" that people talk about (I obviously don't get it yet)

I do NOT expect:

- life completely changing and all former problems magically disappearing
- an eternal state of bliss and ecstasy or other kinds of fireworks

Yeah, thats what I can come up with right now.


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