Looking for a guide

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rjoachim
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Location: Portland, OR

Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:05 pm

I want to learn how to be in the present moment without incessant thought.

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Sarah7
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:13 pm

Hi Rjoachim
Im Sarah. Have you looked around the site? Do you know what we do?
I want to learn how to be in the present moment without incessant thought.
Why? Are they the enemy?
Love Sarah xx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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rjoachim
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Location: Portland, OR

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:02 am

Yes, I have looked around the site.......but I am not absolutely sure what you do.
My thoughts lead me away from the present moment.
I don’t really think they are the enemy, more of an annoyance.

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rjoachim
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Location: Portland, OR

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:45 am

I am a recovering alcoholic and drug addict, at times my thoughts seem like they could be considered the enemy. Knowing they are part of me, makes that hard to accept.

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:08 pm

Hi Rjoachim (is this what you would like to be called?)

My name is Hannah and I would be happy to guide you, Sarah asked me to explore things further with you.

Could you be more specific- what is not clear about what we do here? Take a look at the home page again and pick out any sentences that are confusing you.

This process is absolutely not about getting rid of thoughts. As i would happily help you to see, that's actually not even possible.
if this process did not get rid of a single one of your unwanted thoughts, would there still be interest in engaging in this?

can i also get you to take a look at this post
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... f=4&t=2109

particularly this part:
The method of inquiry used on this site may actually work, unlike many spiritual practices. It will likely change how you regard your self, your relationships, and your world. Neither you nor we can predict how this will turn out for you. If you are already mentally or emotionally fragile, it may exacerbate a mental condition or disorder. If you are currently relying on a prescription or self-prescribed substance to regulate your mood or your sanity, we strongly suggest you not enter into this process. Our guides are not therapists and cannot take responsibility for your mental health, before or after. If your relationships are unsatisfactory, they may improve, or they may not. If you have strong religious or spiritual beliefs, direct experience may support them, or (in our experience) not. You are at all times responsible for your honesty, integrity and focus. A leap into the unknown is just that. We will do everything we can to support it, insofar as we are volunteers working online, with attendant limitations.

We maintain several Facebook groups that allow people who have been through a forum process to discuss and work through common issues. These are not a substitute for any mental or physical help that you may need after Gate. None of the group participants is responsible for your well-being, or can be held liable for any advice. Adopt any more thoughts, concepts, or beliefs at your own risk.

Enter into this process if you are ready and willing to question all your beliefs and assumptions about awakening, if you are ready to face your fears, and if you prefer truth to comfortable lies. Do not enter if your goal is to fix the parts of your life that you think are broken, to embark on a self-improvement project, or to gain some kind of spiritual certification. Spiritual tourists will be taken to the the airlock and launched into deep space.

Can you honestly confirm these statements in bold are not what is currently going on for you, or what you are looking for here?
It's not that i see any of that as 'wrong', it's just if so this might not be the right place at the moment.
For instance- if you are currently still taking perception altering substances or medication, it may cloud the clear looking into your current sensory experience that this process relies on.

Let me know what you think about all the above, and if you want to continue.
xx
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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rjoachim
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Location: Portland, OR

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:19 pm

Hey Hannah,
Is that the name you would like me to use? I would like it if you called me Richard. I am cool with all of the bold print in your last post. I have been clean for about 6 months, so that is not an issue going forward.

What i really want help with is to understand who I am. I have lived a life filled with lies and selfishness to the point that I only know limited facts about myself. I do not want to lie anymore. So whatever the truth is, not matter how hard it is to stomach, that is what I want. I want to know my true self.

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:22 pm

Great Richard!

Communication on this forum is how this works, i rarely use PM-

These are my versions of the 'groundrules'-

1- 100% honesty- by this I mean- no censoring, no telling me what you think I want to hear, or repeating what you have heard from somewhere else.

2-That you strive to only report as closely as you can your direct experience right now when answering my questions. By this i mean what you can find right here and now, through the perception of your senses, not conceptual ideas, speculation or things from teachings you may have read or seen. To aid this i request you hold off reading spiritual books or watching such content online just whilst we are in this dialogue.

3-That we both agree to post daily, unless we let each other know why that is not possible at that time. Momentum is really important for this process.
What i really want help with is to understand who I am
I'm not here and would not want to teach you anything, to give you new concepts or beliefs. I cannot give you answers, only point out and guide where and how to look for yourself at the way you and your life is currently viewed and believed to be, and test out if that's how it really is.
Question every single thing i say here against your current experience.

This process is very specifically focussed on exploring what you are NOT, and then seeing what remains. very different.
I do not want to lie anymore
Great, that won't help. At all.
I want to know my true self.
What if there was no such thing?

Take a look at this sentence- Just let it really sink in- then simply report back all the thoughts, emotions and sensations in the body that arose as a result...

there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never
has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be.
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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rjoachim
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Location: Portland, OR

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:07 am

Good, I feel relieved, I am glad there is no me.

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rjoachim
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Location: Portland, OR

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:16 am

Then I can stop blaming myself.

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rjoachim
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Location: Portland, OR

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:17 am

i feel peaceful..............

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:35 pm

Great- It would be helpful to have slightly longer replies if possible maybe a short paragraph, so i can get a picture of where to point next.

Don't take that sentence at face value- I might be completely wrong! Let's go on a hunt for this self and you can tell me what is found out...

Let's take a fresh look at this sentence to start with-
Then I can stop blaming myself
Ok, this is a pretty standard thing for people to say right?
But it actually may not make anything like the sense it first seems to...

To start with there apparently are two 'i''s here. - An 'I' that is blaming, and the 'myself' that is being blamed.

So which one are you?
Both?
Neither?
Can you perceive either of these 'I's' with your senses?
Can you taste, touch, smell, hear, or see this 'myself' that is talked about here?
Can that be experienced? How is it experienced?
Really take a good honest look, just like I had asked you to find a set of keys lost in the room you were in. Look everywhere.

Tell me what you find and what response comes up.
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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rjoachim
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:21 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:06 pm

I am not sure if I am neither, but my mind tells me I am one…..that I am blaming myself, by myself. When I look at it from that direction, it does not make sense.

It seems like I do suffer from my past and present mistakes. I judge myself out of pure habit.

No, I cannot perceive either of these I’s with my senses. I can perceive myself through my mind and thought.
I cannot taste, touch, smell, hear or see myself. I can see my physical body in a mirror, or if I recall what I look like, in my memory. I can feel my physical body if I touch myself.

This to me is an experience dealing with my perception of myself and the physical way I look. I am not sure about the blaming myself part.

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rjoachim
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Location: Portland, OR

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

What am I? How do I describe myself?

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Hannah B-T » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:21 pm

These may seem like really weird questions, but you are doing great, just by answering as simply as possible what you find...
but my mind tells me I am one…..that I am blaming myself, by myself. When I look at it from that direction, it does not make sense.
No...it really doesn't does it!
I can perceive myself through my mind and thought
ok, let's take a look at the mind and thoughts more closely.

Are you the thinker of thoughts?
Can you think and chose which thoughts happen?
If so, which ones? give me actual examples.

I can see my physical body in a mirror, or if I recall what I look like, in my memory. I can feel my physical body if I touch myself.
we will probably need to look at the body later, but let's go one step at a time.
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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rjoachim
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:21 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby rjoachim » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:17 pm

Thinking seems like it is the action associated with thought. Thought is an idea or noun. Thinking is the verb. So as it relates to me, I am thinking about a thought or idea. So looking at myself as a thinker doesn’t really make sense to me. I am involved with the thought but I am not sure where it comes from.

I am not always able to choose my thoughts.

I am able to choose the ones that deal with the present moment. Like what I am doing or what I am going to do in the future.

An example of that would be, as I am writing this I am thinking about what I am going to say or what I am going to eat tonight for dinner.


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