denhamer, we start here

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Elizabeth
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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby Elizabeth » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:31 pm

Very cool. Keep going. You ask you the questions, it works well.

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denhamer
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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby denhamer » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:44 pm

Hi Elizabeth. Couple of things wanted to share.

Last few nights have been remembering dreams more clearly........in that hazy time before my body fully wakes up experience of dream is that 'me' or 'I' was the central figure. See my conscious and subconscious mind running the same 'I' subject scripting......like driving a car believe the subconscious dream experience has no 'I' it is just happening and my 'I' interprets its central role whether it is in the dream, in the hazy waking period post dream or before waking fully. Any insights on the dream world?

Sex has been interesting experience over past few months. My partner entering menopause combined with her awakening and the loss of any codependency stuff on her side or external oriented desire.......has offered greatest area of learning opportunity. At a place now where see that in the moment if there is authentic movement towards partner then physical sex happens.....but if I act from an 'I' place, 100% time the moment passes and a learning opportunity arises. Also seeing the hard wiring of the past where intimacy was the drive and sex the delivery vehicle is deconstructing. Movement taking place to sex is sex and intimacy always here.

in love.....fergus

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby Elizabeth » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:38 am

Hi Fergus.
Dreams...anything that exists only in thought. Kinda like the story and the character of Fergus. And the story of Fergus awakening :-)
Ah, intimacy always here, that is real.
Without the story of I laid over reality, it's shockingly real. And not in the control of an I, in any way.
Lack of control turns out to be interesting.
As you look at what you would like to control, perhaps see what lies at the root of those thoughts. A belief.
Always a belief.
If an I did not control outcomes, what would happen?
Who would you be without control?

Much love.

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby denhamer » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:15 am

[quote][/quote]Lack of control turns out to be interesting.
As you look at what you would like to control, perhaps see what lies at the root of those thoughts. A belief.
Always a belief.
If an I did not control outcomes, what would happen?
Who would you be without control?

Control - reflecting results in movement towards laughter or tears.....but neither happens so don't know what would come up first......as at this time control or the I steps in before either laughter or tears happens

This form is in Vancouver, in a house, sitting in a bed, physical computer on lap, typing is happening. This form arrived at this place with no control over anything. Analogy of the instrument comes to mind. My I always always has me as the musician.......past the I story see this form is an instrument not the musician. Is this form also the musician - don't know - reflection for another time.

So with nothing but the illusion of control the form or person called fergus is where it is....in a town called vancouver, in a bed, observing typing happening. If this form was supposed to be somewhere else it would be.

Somewhere laughter is trying to arise - the I is pushing for tears of irony

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:26 pm

I think we ask a question here: Please describe how an I is, and how it works. The mechanics of how an I was formed, and how it is constructed over time, and in every day usage.
The whole story of I as you now see it. How did an I assume control and ownership of life?
It's an essay question for sure.
Take care, Fergus.

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby denhamer » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:08 pm

[quote][/quote]I think we ask a question here: Please describe how an I is, and how it works. The mechanics of how an I was formed, and how it is constructed over time, and in every day usage.
The whole story of I as you now see it. How did an I assume control and ownership of life?

Don't know when I first started to be constructed but picture a small child looking in a mirror one day and recognizing an image that its parents and others were calling fergus and there was an original I thought....hey that's me. Over time more and more layers of thoughts were added to the original foundation. I is an amalgamation of thoughts and thoughts about thoughts of all the interpreted experiences. Works as combination of central processing unit (the computer element which does the computation stuff and directing of information) which takes care of the day to day (chop wood carry water) practical stuff......and movie director focusing attention/thoughts/I on anything other than the now, present moment, isness.....constantly working to interpret every waking and sleeping experience as an I directed movie with I always cast in the central role. The I is like something in nature, a physical thing working to survive, grow, procreate, evolve......fighting for survival.

As the day happens.....I is a constant. Yet there is an awareness of a 6 degrees separation or time lapse between and actual experience and the I jumping in to interpret. This morning lying in bed some I thoughts came up about getting out of bed.....let them pass.....my feet hit the ground and let dog out of its crate....an I thought come up about making an espresso - I says fergus likes espresso in the morning....another I thought came up to eat a bit before going to yoga (as I started to eat recognized I wasn't really hungry but I thought well you made it and you should always eat what is on your plate so kept eating). The physical walking with dog to beach and watching water/mountains happened. Dog poo'd and I thought came up do I walk all the way back to pick it up or leave it - walked back to pick it up (I thought was good people pick up their dog's poo). So, so far today many habit type I thoughts and some isness happening.

So I is everywhere and nowhere.......it uses this body's senses incredibly well, especially eyes and touch, to control the script. Right now there is a flower in a vase on a table here in a room. The flower is present in this time and space. The I labels it as a yellow tulip....separated in space from I......inherent in the labeling is a judgement about the construct called a yellow tulip. The flower is in my awareness nothing more nothing less. The I scripting is saying without I looking through eyes there would be no flower so I is needed to interpret everything around you. Yet the flowers are here whether I interprets them or not. Same with touch and all the other senses.

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:30 pm

Fergus, what would be the difference in living as an awakened person, and how it is for you now?
Do you need something else?
Anything missing?
Love.

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby denhamer » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:01 am

Elizabeth......smile, hug, warmth......

In answer to your question - nothing arises around any perception of something that is missing or needs to be filled. Recognition is here of thoughts which arise attempting to create separation etc.. Last few days watched two separate, very quick, rising up of anger emotions which were like a quick ocean squall, in that they came and went very very quickly with no attachment. The intensity of the emotion and speed of them arising/leaving without attachment was fun. I don't know how much this was because person on other side was awake (Lori) - doesn't matter. Recognition is here of the teeter-totter like journey nearing, at, passing a balance point of some kind.

Time and space are still here - separateness is still here - so awakening hasn't happened. Nothing arises about these thoughts. No sense that awakening is important or not important. No awakening experience is being run after - but have asked god for help to awaken in this form's life time. Whatever the next moment/s bring will be what they will be. Trust is here that god has this aspect/form fully in hand.

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby Elizabeth » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:38 pm

Hi Fergus,
The way of surrender is also sweet. It's another way to loosen the grip that a self has on life.
I am aware, having read a few of your partner's posts, that you are trying to do several techniques, or processes at once.
We usually ask that people focus on this one direct pointing till it becomes visceral, and the looking becomes the way through the illusion.
Another question for clarity for both of us, see if there is anything else we might want to focus on:
What is the difference living with the self-ing in clear view, and self as an automatic and unquestioned process?

Hugs and warmth back:-)

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby denhamer » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:23 am

Elizabeth......What is here - everything is here - I am here......the i a descriptor of this form which includes a mind, preferences, muscles, lungs, senses, vocal cords etc....

Stuff arises (thoughts, emotions, experiences) and passes through. The construct of experiences has faded away....there just is - the body or I dances, sleeps. Sense perception in the moment is still here (sipping wine, eating, hugs, taste of chocolate ice cream on the tongue). External attachments - as these words are typed story came up - inspection shows story is thoughts about thoughts. They just went away - stillness is here.

What is the difference living with the self-ing in clear view, and self as an automatic and unquestioned process?[quote][/quote]

Everything and nothing. Describing a moment that is already past has no value.....describing or sharing knowledge learned will arise in the moment as it does or does not. In this moment peace is here, ease is here, a head cold is here and the puppy letting me know she wants to go out.

Namaste Elizabeth.....

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby Elizabeth » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:51 pm

Hi Fergus,
Well, you know, we are kinda hardcore around here. Advaita talk is lovely, but, no.

DO YOU EXIST?

Love.

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denhamer, we start here

Postby denhamer » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:59 pm

Not sure what Advita is but heard term from lori recently and seen it referenced in books. Understand its an Indian philosophy but don't know if it's a form of Buddhism or not. Will go research to see where your comment is pointing

Do I exist?. As Fergus, No - the illusion of the small I/ego is seen through. As a living being, Yes - as an aspect of something not understood or experienced but somehow known

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby Elizabeth » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:22 am

Do I exist?. As Fergus, No - the illusion of the small I/ego is seen through. As a living being, Yes - as an aspect of something not understood or experienced but somehow known

Ah, that is direct! Good! Think of me as a bit thick!
LAST question from me, as I think this may come up in life:
If you had someone in front of you, like a dear niece or nephew who had never heard of this before, who asked you what this "waking up, no-self business" was all about: how would you explain it to them in a way they could use?

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby denhamer » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:53 pm

[quote][/quote]If you had someone in front of you, like a dear niece or nephew who had never heard of this before, who asked you what this "waking up, no-self business" was all about: how would you explain it to them in a way they could use?

I reached a point in my life where my story of who I thought I was no longer held any meaning. I was tired of being driven by emotions and thoughts which, even in the middle of upsets, seemed silly and pointless. Patterns of behaviour and thought, and habits became more visible and I started to see how much of life was hidden by these filters to authentic experiencing. I became increasingly aware of the distractions that kept my mind busy and in the forefront of my awareness. When I was ready life presented an opportunity to start to inspect my thoughts and my belief about who fergus was. With help from others I saw I couldn't find an 'I' when I looked for it. This lead to a seeing that fergus was an amalgamation of all of the thoughts fergus had collected about himself through his interactions with family, friends, work etc.....and was just a construct of thoughts. Nothing tangible or real - just thoughts. Am at a place now where there is a knowing that experience happens and a few seconds later the ego/self adds on I type thoughts to the experience to take ownership of them as an I as a way to continue to propagate belief in its existence as something real. Seeing through the illusion of the I has lead to a state of peace and ease. My mind has quietened. Thoughts still arise, emotions still arise, but no attachment to them. People, nature, things are seen purely - filters have been removed. The really funny thing is that the person you think of as fergus got to this moment with no control over anything......while all this time fergus had I thoughts that he was the center of his world and was controlling everything.

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Re: denhamer, we start here

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:15 pm

Fergus, great answer. It was clear, I am thick, and I understood it :-)
I think you are at Gate. Here is where my fellow guides look at this thread from their various perspectives and we do our damnedest to make sure you are clear, before we let you go. So many little spiritual traps and trips, I had a doozy, lasted 10 minutes under the lasers. It's a great game.
So, play with us a little more. You have been answering Gate questions all along because I had a hard time understanding where you were at, and they are pretty good orientation indicators.
Here they are again, let's see if you have moved to clarity. Ferocious clarity. I warn you, if I see a waffle I SHALL TYPE IN CAPS!

1/Do you have an I in any shape or form, including God?
2/ How does it feel to be liberated?
3/ What pushed you over the edge?

Much love, Fergus, I am totally your cheerleader on this.


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