Interested in a guide

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CaroleG
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Interested in a guide

Postby CaroleG » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:49 pm

Hello,
My name is Carole, and I am new to this site. I am interested and ready to work with a guide. Is there anyone available to support this process? I feel very ready.
Thank you much,
Carole

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Devina
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby Devina » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:53 pm

Hello Carole! My name is Dawn and I'd be happy to guide you. First, a few questions:

- Are you willing to post at least once a day?
- Do you agree to look honestly and offer heartfelt responses? (I'm not looking for "right" answers, I just want to hear what is being explored.)
- What are your expectations for this?
- Who feels very ready? Can you describe where this feeling comes from?

Much love,
D.

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CaroleG
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby CaroleG » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:33 pm

Hi Dawn,

Great to meet you, and thank you for your willingness to guide. In response to your answers:

I am definitely willing to post at least once a day, and do agree to look honestly and offer raw, heartfelt responses.
Expectations, I’m not really sure I know for sure. “I” want to see clearly who I really am beyond the current perception of “myself” as a person, a concept (my eyes well up saying this) …and am not sure who it is that wants to see, nor who it is that’s “ready”. There’s a deep yearning from my heart-region to see what’s real here, to know what’s really true. It’s funny, there’s also a feeling of “being fooled” – fooled in believing in some “me” that doesn’t actually exist.

Carole

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Devina
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby Devina » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:41 am

Hello again Carole! Everything you've said so far sounds great. If you haven't already, take a look at the sticky threads at the top of the forum to read the rules, learn how to quote, and download the book if you want some extra insight. And we're all set! Let's take a look:
Expectations, I’m not really sure I know for sure. “I” want to see clearly who I really am beyond the current perception of “myself” as a person...
That's all to expect, really; just a recognition that the self doesn't exist. There will be no moment of graduation into a new and magical state of bliss.
...a concept (my eyes well up saying this)...
What would it mean if Carole were just a concept? Would anything really change?
...and am not sure who it is that wants to see, nor who it is that’s “ready”.
That's nicely honest. Take another look, and see if you can find the person who is ready, or what makes them ready, or even what measuring scale of achievement their readiness falls on.
It’s funny, there’s also a feeling of “being fooled” – fooled in believing in some “me” that doesn’t actually exist.
This is no problem. Who could be fooled? A moment, any moment, of looking into reality will provide the answer. By reality, I mean the place shoes are tied and dishes are washed. Simple, boring - so unremarkable that people look right past it. Thoughts seem much more enticing, but keep looking into right now!

If you think you find something, look at it more closely. Does it have any of the functions a self is supposed to have? Does it own anything? Control anything? Sense anything? Have a personality?

Who is looking? Have a good time exploring this.

Looking forward to your responses!

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Devina
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby Devina » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:53 am

Checking in. If it's too much at once, Carole, feel free to comment on a little every day! Or ask questions. I'm happy to listen and help however I can. Good luck!

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CaroleG
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby CaroleG » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:16 am

This is perfect, thank you for checking in.
What would it mean if Carole were just a concept? Would anything really change?
If Carole were just a concept …..Carole feels like just a label, a “name,” referencing this particular body. I don’t feel a sense that anything would change actually.
Take another look, and see if you can find the person who is ready,
I don’t find a person. And actually I don’t really know what that is. What is a person?
or what makes them ready,
Readiness is just a sense I’m noticing. It almost feels like something has finally said, yes, okay.
or even what measuring scale of achievement their readiness falls on.
I don’t sense a scale of achievement ….perhaps just finally a real honest willingness to see, even if it means the destruction of resistance to die in a sense.
This is no problem. Who could be fooled?
This concept of personhood, appears to be defending ..but defending nothing, yet it still seems to exist in some way through belief. This feels fuzzy – how can moments feel so clear tht this “person” really doesn’t exist, yet it seems to still be running the experience of the show?
If you think you find something, look at it more closely. Does it have any of the functions a self is supposed to have? Does it own anything? Control anything? Sense anything? Have a personality?
I just don’t know what I am (my eyes well up again). Own anything, no. control anything, no. Sense anything, I’m not sure WHAT is sensing. Have a personality, I don’t think so.
Who is looking? Have a good time exploring this.
I don’t know what the hell is looking. I know it’s not “Carole”. But I just don’t know what this, what I, am.

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Devina
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby Devina » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:28 pm

What would it mean if Carole were just a concept? Would anything really change?
If Carole were just a concept …..Carole feels like just a label, a “name,” referencing this particular body. I don’t feel a sense that anything would change actually.
Sure, okay. Then why tear up? Would anything be lost? If you've seen glimpses of no-self before and the self idea keeps popping up, then obviously nothing dies, nothing is hurt, any more than Santa Claus could hurt. It's just a thought.
This feels fuzzy – how can moments feel so clear tht this “person” really doesn’t exist, yet it seems to still be running the experience of the show?
Well, let's look at this. What's running the experience of the show? What does that mean, in practical terms? Is this mysterious entity in charge of seeing? Controlling attention? Movement? Can you find a starting point for any of these events, some central place they came from?

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CaroleG
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby CaroleG » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:30 am

CaroleG wrote:
What would it mean if Carole were just a concept? Would anything really change?

If Carole were just a concept …..Carole feels like just a label, a “name,” referencing this particular body. I don’t feel a sense that anything would change actually.

Sure, okay. Then why tear up?
The tears …the honest knowing that I just don’t know; that I really just don’t know who/what I really am. If Carole as I’ve thought her to be is non-existant, who am I? …or, for some reason what feels more accurate is what am I? What is this?
Would anything be lost?
I do sense something would be lost, or die. Is this just this thought of Carole as a separate entity that is afraid to die? ..be seen as unreal for good?
If you've seen glimpses of no-self before and the self idea keeps popping up, then obviously nothing dies, nothing is hurt, any more than Santa Claus could hurt. It's just a thought.
Ah, yes, ok I’m with you. That would be true – popping up, coming and going, not really here all the time, which means ..not really here.
CaroleG wrote: This feels fuzzy – how can moments feel so clear tht this “person” really doesn’t exist, yet it seems to still be running the experience of the show?

Well, let's look at this. What's running the experience of the show?
When identifying as this separate Carole, it feels like ego is driving the experience. But ultimately, intellectually I understand but obviously haven’t fully experienced it’s ALL the play of consciousness. Intellect is not going to help here, I do know this.
What does that mean, in practical terms? Is this mysterious entity in charge of seeing? Controlling attention? Movement?
This mysterious/coming and going entity is not in charge of seeing – I feel this deeply. I don’t know what controls attention. It reminds me of Adyashanti saying, “where you put your attention is what you love.” I’m not sure who “you” is referring to. This makes it seem like some entity can control where attention is placed, but I’m not so sure this is accurate.
Can you find a starting point for any of these events, some central place they came from?
I don’t feel a starting point. I don’t know - don't sense - where anything truly comes from –I can’t really find a central focal point for where anything is particularly coming from.

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Devina
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby Devina » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:27 am

I do sense something would be lost, or die. Is this just this thought of Carole as a separate entity that is afraid to die? ..be seen as unreal for good?
Can thoughts be afraid? Test it out: think a thought, and see if it can sense anything, or think about itself.

What comes before and after a thought? Do they go somewhere to die, or just fall silent?

Does Carole exist anywhere outside of thought?
If you've seen glimpses of no-self before and the self idea keeps popping up, then obviously nothing dies, nothing is hurt, any more than Santa Claus could hurt. It's just a thought.
Ah, yes, ok I’m with you. That would be true – popping up, coming and going, not really here all the time, which means ..not really here.
Yes, if there was a self running things, it would certainly need to be there all the time. :)
What does that mean, in practical terms? Is this mysterious entity in charge of seeing? Controlling attention? Movement?
This mysterious/coming and going entity is not in charge of seeing – I feel this deeply. I don’t know what controls attention. It reminds me of Adyashanti saying, “where you put your attention is what you love.” I’m not sure who “you” is referring to. This makes it seem like some entity can control where attention is placed, but I’m not so sure this is accurate.
Forget Adyashanti for now, and just sit and experiment. Watch what happens in reality:
How does attention seem to work? Is anyone directing your eyes over each word in this sentence? Do you choose which noises to hear? What about thoughts?
Can you find a starting point for any of these events, some central place they came from?
I don’t feel a starting point. I don’t know - don't sense - where anything truly comes from –I can’t really find a central focal point for where anything is particularly coming from.
Look around the room, and at the body. Can you find anything that functions independently from everything around it?

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CaroleG
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby CaroleG » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:42 pm

Can thoughts be afraid? Test it out: think a thought, and see if it can sense anything, or think about itself.
No, thoughts themselves can’t be afraid. I can’t really see how thoughts can sense, nor can thoughts themselves think about itself. Thoughts seem to just appear without the capacity to do more than appear and disappear.

What comes before and after a thought? Do they go somewhere to die, or just fall silent?
Thoughts seem to independently come and go – I’m not sure if anything comes before or after a thought in particular. They seem to just fall silent….hmmmm
Does Carole exist anywhere outside of thought?
If Carole is the label referring to this particular body, I don’t know if this body exists outside of thought.
Forget Adyashanti for now, and just sit and experiment. Watch what happens in reality:
How does attention seem to work? Is anyone directing your eyes over each word in this sentence? Do you choose which noises to hear? What about thoughts?
I don’t think I'm clear on how attention really works. I don’t think there is anyone – any ‘person’ – directing the eyes. I don’t think there is choice in hearing noises, this seems to just happen as it does. Thoughts appear, sometimes linger, and vanish, sometimes to return, sometimes not.
Look around the room, and at the body. Can you find anything that functions independently from everything around it?
The computer seems to function independently of the wall. The chair seems to function independently of the fan. This body appears to function regardless of thoughts happening or not happening.

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Devina
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby Devina » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:08 pm

If Carole is the label referring to this particular body, I don’t know if this body exists outside of thought.


Well then, does anything exist outside of thought?

Is the self the body? If a hand was chopped off, would the body feel any less like Carole?

Does a self reside in any specific location in the body, and where? What size is the self? What shape? Can a border be felt between inside and outside?
I don’t think I'm clear on how attention really works. I don’t think there is anyone – any ‘person’ – directing the eyes. I don’t think there is choice in hearing noises, this seems to just happen as it does. Thoughts appear, sometimes linger, and vanish, sometimes to return, sometimes not.
Sounds pretty clear here! There's no one doing it, apparently. Is there any doubt about this?
Look around the room, and at the body. Can you find anything that functions independently from everything around it?
The computer seems to function independently of the wall. The chair seems to function independently of the fan. This body appears to function regardless of thoughts happening or not happening.
Oh, that last noticing was a good one - body keeps chugging along no matter what thought says it should be doing. :) But let's look at the others for a bit:

Do the computer and wall exist as separate realities, or are they part of the same picture? If you took the chair to a different room, would that affect the wind currents flowing around the fan - and the lungs, too? Does the computer influence the body's movements, and the body influence the computer?

And here's another fun insight about the body: where did it come from? When did it become Carole? When did the chair become a chair...?

Much love,
D.

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CaroleG
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby CaroleG » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:39 am

CaroleG wrote:If Carole is the label referring to this particular body, I don’t know if this body exists outside of thought.
Well then, does anything exist outside of thought?
Things seem to exist regardless of thought or no thought.
Is the self the body? If a hand was chopped off, would the body feel any less like Carole?
No, this is great. Not at all. If a hand was chopped off, nothing would change, wow. I, would not change at all…with or without “hand.” So therefore, I am not the body. But, I is somewhat dependent on body to express itself, yes?
Does a self reside in any specific location in the body, and where? What size is the self? What shape? Can a border be felt between inside and outside?
I can’t locate a self inside specifically, anywhere. I don’t know a size, or shape. It feels more like space, without a shape or size. A border between inside and outside …great question. Well, this spaciousness that feels like what I am – I’m not sure about boundary between inside and outside. But I don’t sense myself as anything outside of this body – even though I know I’m not the body. I do see myself in and as others though. But I don’t feel myself as objects like “chair” or “computer.”
CaroleG wrote:I don’t think I'm clear on how attention really works. I don’t think there is anyone – any ‘person’ – directing the eyes. I don’t think there is choice in hearing noises, this seems to just happen as it does. Thoughts appear, sometimes linger, and vanish, sometimes to return, sometimes not.
Sounds pretty clear here! There's no one doing it, apparently. Is there any doubt about this?
Nothing seems to be directing the eyes, or directing what’s heard. But if there is a thought believed (attention on believed thought), it seems like action/the body follows, whether the thought is ‘true’ or not true. Which, really, is any thought true at all?! So “what” is putting attention on thought?
The computer seems to function independently of the wall. The chair seems to function independently of the fan. This body appears to function regardless of thoughts happening or not happening.
Oh, that last noticing was a good one - body keeps chugging along no matter what thought says it should be doing. :)
Yes, but if there is a believed thought, body can chug somewhere different than if there is no thought believed at all..? It appears that believed thought has influence.
Do the computer and wall exist as separate realities, or are they part of the same picture?
I suppose they are a part of the whole.
If you took the chair to a different room, would that affect the wind currents flowing around the fan - and the lungs, too? Does the computer influence the body's movements, and the body influence the computer?
I don’t think so…they all seem to beat to their own music. The body’s lungs don’t operate differently based on a fan in this room or the next.
And here's another fun insight about the body: where did it come from? When did it become Carole? When did the chair become a chair...?
I have no idea where the body came from. It appeared through mysterious means. It took on Carole when my parents said that’s what we will call this body (this is the start of separation isn't it?!). The chair became a chair when someone decided to call it that. Chair is a label that can never really touch what it actually is.

Love,
Space (I don’t know what “Carole” is anymore - but I do know that "Carole" seems too small of a label for what "I" really am, in this moment)

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Devina
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby Devina » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:38 pm

Love,
Space (I don’t know what “Carole” is anymore - but I do know that "Carole" seems too small of a label for what "I" really am, in this moment)
Hello then, Space. :) Space is pretty cool, but is it an identity?
Yes, but if there is a believed thought, body can chug somewhere different than if there is no thought believed at all..? It appears that believed thought has influence.
Is there anyone in charge of believing a thought?

See, tires can turn a car, but are they in charge of direction?

Watch what happens when thinking, and see if there's anyone in charge of anything.

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CaroleG
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby CaroleG » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:18 pm

CaroleG wrote:Love,
Space (I don’t know what “Carole” is anymore - but I do know that "Carole" seems too small of a label for what "I" really am, in this moment)

Hello then, Space. :) Space is pretty cool, but is it an identity?

It doesn’t feel like an identity. It just feels more accurate than “Carole,” which seemed to feel like a definitive separate entity.
CaroleG wrote:Yes, but if there is a believed thought, body can chug somewhere different than if there is no thought believed at all..? It appears that believed thought has influence.
Is there anyone in charge of believing a thought?
I don’t know! What’s here to be the ‘thing’ to believe or not believe thought?!
So there’s a believed thought (I'm not sure "what" is the believer), “I should go drink more water.” ..believed, and this body goes to get water. Not believed thought ..the body doesn’t move. So what is it that is believing or not believing, and thus moving or not moving body?
See, tires can turn a car, but are they in charge of direction?
Tires appear to simply move, not in charge of direction. Something else is “steering” the tires into direction.
Watch what happens when thinking, and see if there's anyone in charge of anything.
Believed thought appears to steer attention/direction. But what(who) is the believer?

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Devina
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Re: Interested in a guide

Postby Devina » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:37 pm

what(who) is the believer?
If this thing cannot be found, why assume it's there?

Watch - does there appear to be a step in between thinking and believing, where a mental boss is consulted?


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