Requesting a guide

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Anotherway2b
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Anotherway2b » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:29 am

If you would like for me to use Simon I could.
Yes, I'd like that. I'm curious about why you have refrained from doing so. To an extent to I have made a rod for my own back by creating the name, but I also wondered if you wanted to call me 'another' to demonstrate something about the self and labels?

I am trying the exercises you have described. Thank you.

I'm away camping at the moment, sorry there has been some break in contact. I am definitely keeping what we have discussed in mind. I like this process.
using just awareness as a criteria, can you tell where the field ends and the trees begin? Is there an edge to awareness where it can be seen to end ,or is it in,out and all around? [\quote]

I understand your point about the omnipresence of awareness but I'm struggling to conceptualise it in my own mind. Can you elaborate? You are saying it has no bounds? It's everywhere. It is the only thing that is truly real?
When hunger is experienced, how is it experienced? What actually tells you that you are hungry?[\quote]

I experience hunger as a physical sensation initially, followed by a thought that I need food and a desire to eat. My body tells me.
Does awareness need an identity? Are there any examples of awareness around you with no identity? [\quote]

I don't suppose it does. You've already written about animals having awareness but no identity. Anything that lives can possess awareness without identity. Plants? Insects, fish? Your point is what's so different from them to us, right?
I'm struggling to find one! It's crazy how shaky the concept is once it is challenged. My self is just a label, an illusion. It feels a little sad in a way but positive too. The way I've lived life has been untrue but I've got the rest I my life to live in a truer light.

Thanks so much,

Simon.

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Metta777 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:47 pm

Hi Simon,
I also wondered if you wanted to call me 'another' to demonstrate something about the self and labels?
Yes, it is all about labels isn't it? Everything was taught to you by labels.Tree,dog,car, later parents told you, nose, ear, foot, Simon!! They said this is you and this is me.Up to 18 months of age there is no awareness of self.
I understand your point about the omnipresence of awareness but I'm struggling to conceptualise it in my own mind. Can you elaborate? You are saying it has no bounds? It's everywhere. It is the only thing that is truly real?
What is the experience of awareness? If thought is stopped, what happens? You continue breathing, seeing, hearing, smelling, but no thought is involved in those processes continuing. There is feeling in the body, but is it just happening? Or happening to someone called Simon? Is Simon just a concept of the mind?
Can awareness be split up into pieces? Thoughts keep arising and in between thoughts is what? When thoughts arise, who is observing them? Camping , perfect. So sit in the forest for a moment, listen acutely to sounds, close your eyes, sit very still, notice internally also. Eyes open, eyes closed, sleeping, awake, reading, eating, what is always in the background? Step back from it and look.
My self is just a label, an illusion. It feels a little sad in a way but positive too. The way I've lived life has been untrue but I've got the rest I my life to live in a truer light.
Have you lived your life? Can you own a life? What makes it your life? Or your cup? Concepts ? When looking is there a self or has there ever been a self? Or just life living and concepts are added on to it? There is a message in that sadness, stay with it and see what comes up.

Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Anotherway2b
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Anotherway2b » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:31 pm

Hi Metta,

I'm sorry I have left it late to get back in touch. I hope this message finds you well.

I like your comment about foot, hand Simon. That makes sense to me. It helps to challenge the way I have previously thought about my self.
Eyes open, eyes closed, sleeping, awake, reading, eating, what is always in the background? Step back from it and look.
I've tried looking and what always seems to be there is just the present. When you strip everything down it all seems very simple. It seems like my mind has made it more complicated than what it needs to be. Why has it done this though? Is it some kind of elaborate defence mechanism? What's its purpose? To protect me from the pain of reality? But why would my mind go to all this trouble? It's a much more similar and peaceful to live life in the present.
Have you lived your life? Can you own a life? What makes it your life? [\quote]

I think I have lived my life. Perhaps not as much as I would have liked to. But am I off line with this? Do I take this to mean that if there is no past/future, just neurological imprints established through conditioning I have not had a life per se? Can someone own a life? It's something that is given, right? Created. I don't think I've ever owned it. It's not something that a monetary value can be put upon. Is this about ownership and belonging? My life is mine but I wouldn't say I own it. What makes it mine is my experience. Memories, neurological imprints, what ever they are they have made me me. But if there is no me, no I, no Simon, just labels then had it truly existed? Is life itself just a label or a concept? I think you are going to tell me that it is.

I have tried tapping into the sadness I wrote of in my last post. I think it relates to loss. A loss of the previous conceptualisations I have held about life. A loss of my previous understanding or even misunderstanding about about the self, others and the world. Maybe the sadness is also about, 'why didn't I see this earlier?'

Many thanks,

Simon.

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Metta777 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:36 pm

Hi Simon,

Awareness does not have and end or edge does it? Not physically*, but in awareness or consciousness only* can you find a separation between your fingers and the keyboard. Who are you? Do you have an identity or is it a mind made fabrication from conditioning? Strip away all the labels, beliefs, thoughts, who you think you are and whats left? Only consciousness?
I think I have lived my life. Perhaps not as much as I would have liked to. But am I off line with this? Do I take this to mean that if there is no past/future, just neurological imprints established through conditioning
Who has lived a life if there is no I ? Could life be just awareness living? Outside the body ,inside the body, everywhere there is awareness. No end to awareness , no edges, it just is and everything the mind creates is a clever mirage?
But if there is no me, no I, no Simon, just labels then had it truly existed? Is life itself just a label or a concept? I think you are going to tell me that it is.
If there were no sense of self, like a dog for example, is living just a concept? A dog looks in the mirror and thinks it is another dog in there. It's mind is not developed enough to create a self. Is it living? Is it aware? Can you imagine an awareness ,life living without a self? What would that be like? What is the difference between you and the dog? Aside from the obvious differences, lol.

Isn't Simon just a good story that is happening now as I type or as you read. If there is no past in reality and there isn't .It is just electro chemical processes in the brain like a bio computer it stores data...., but it is not happening now. so if there is pain, it is only remembered pain, not actual pain. The future being only a projection of the mind based on past experiences. How many things have you worried about that never happened? You can only live NOW.

Here is a great exercise called serious sitting for developing insight, but you must do it exactly as instructed. Sit for an hour in meditation without moving, drink, eat, go to the bathroom before because you can't move. Try to sit in the lotus position or some other position you normally use if you meditate. Now during this hour you may start to be uncomfortable, this is very important, not to disturb this. You will use it. Now focus on the discomfort, for perhaps 5 minutes or as long as you can tolerate it, then, shift your focus, and spread the discomfort throughout your whole body. Feeling the discomfort ,the sensation spreading until it is all the way through and even to the top of your head. So do this change in focus, at least three times, zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out. Keep your eyes closed, breath slowly. Let your thoughts just rest. Now sometimes during or after this process startling thoughts may arise, just note them and let them float by remaining centered and calm. It is natural to this process, but it may not even happen, but this way you won't be surprised. You may feel this spreading sensation or sometimes it is unconscious, but even unconscious it starts a process. Then if you need another session, meditate for two hours and then do the same thing. Contract focus, spread focus, more this time because it is two hours. This really is for the serious seeker who is willing to go the mile. Not moving for two solid hours will be uncomfortable and I suggest after to get up slowly. This kind of zen meditation has an effect and it usually works very well. We use the discomfort for a really good purpose. If you are a regular,long term meditator it may not even be that uncomfortable at all. If that is the case, then just take some very noticeable sensation and do the same thing.
The ego doesn't like being displaced, this is the sadness, it is also natural. As for why,or when it happens, it all happens as it is supposed to. When the readiness is there perhaps.

Oh, about the Another, yes, it is just a label isn't it. If I called you Charlie, would it change anything? Maybe annoy you. :-)

I am going on a short unexpected vacation until next week. I will resume guiding again next Monday. So please write all that happens in this experience down while it is fresh. When I come back we will review the experience and how it went. Namaste and Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Anotherway2b
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Anotherway2b » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:10 pm

Hi Metta,

I hope you are ok and your vacation went well.

I tried the meditation exercise you described to me. I did it twice, once before bed and then just after I'd woken up. My thoughts seemed a lot more active during the meditation in the morning. It was harder to keep them on track then. The uncomfortable sensations I experienced occurred spontaneously and more frequently than what I imagined they would do. I rarely take time to sit completely still! I noticed that when I focused in on the uncomfortableness it would increase in intensity and when I zoomed out the intensity would generally lessen. It was hard to resist the urge to scratch or provide comfort to my self but often the uncomfortableness would vanish as spontaneously as it appeared, usually it would be displaced by another sensation or a thought about something.

More often than not, I also experienced a tinnitus like ringing in my ears. This was pretty painful at times. It was probably the most intense uncomfortableness I experienced during both episodes. Im not quite sure what that was about. I used to have it a bit when I was younger. I could control it fairly well during both meditations. I don't quite know what that was all about and if it meant anything?

I feel as if I truly grasping what this is all about. I am noticing that I am beginning to relate to my mind and my experiences differently. Prior to this I believed that I was complete. I had a past and a future and I had control. Now it seems that all that truly exists is the present. The past, the future, the self, it isn't really there. In the main there is an illusion. There is an I, me and Simon but these labels don't carry the same type of meaning as they carried before.

Kind regards,

Simon.

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Metta777 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:34 am

Hi Simon,

Is a collection of electro-chemical processes, conditioning, learned cues, data processing by an organic computer a self? Is awareness all there is? Who are you really? If awareness can't be separated It just is and awareness is consciousness? How does that change perceptions?

Love, metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Anotherway2b
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Anotherway2b » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:09 pm

Hi Metta,

Thanks for this. Hope things are good. I've tried answering honestly and truthfully. Here goes:
Is a collection of electro-chemical processes, conditioning, learned cues, data processing by an organic computer a self? [\quote]

Yes it is. These processes are used to guide thought, to make sense of experience. To paint a picture that doesn't truly exist. They take hold at an early age and grow with you as you grow older. Combined with language they are used to create an illusion of the self that when you break down and challenge it falls away pretty easily when placed under scrutiny.
Is awareness all there is? [\quote]

I'm still grappling with this a little. Can you expand? Does this mean that things outside of awareness don't exist? They do though don't they?
Who are you really? [\quote]

There is no 'you', no 'I'. these are labels given to me when I was younger. By answering this question I think I am indulging my ego. All that matters is the present. No past, no future, just the here and now. Think dog, right? I'm aware, I'm present, I'm here. That's all that matters.
Argh! Struggling with this one! I've read it a few times over. Either this sentence is lost on me or you might have mistyped it? I'm still a bit hazy on the topic of awareness/ consciousness. Can you elaborate, please? Do I take this to mean awareness = consciousness? Or it doesn't? I'm still a little lost on this.

Many thanks,

Simon.

User avatar
Anotherway2b
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Anotherway2b » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:12 pm

Sorry, not sure why my last post didn't come out correctly. I'll try again:

Hi Metta,

Thanks for this. Hope things are good. I've tried answering honestly and truthfully:
Is a collection of electro-chemical processes, conditioning, learned cues, data processing by an organic computer a self? [\quote]

Yes it is. These processes are used to guide thought, to make sense of experience. They take hold at an early age and remain with you as you grow older. Combined with language they are used to create an illusion of the self that when you break down and challenge it falls away quite easily. There's a brutal simplicity to it all that I never truly acknowledged before.
Is awareness all there is? [\quote]

I'm still grappling with this a little. Can you expand? Does this mean that things outside of awareness don't exist? They do though don't they?
Who are you really? [\quote]

There is no 'you', no 'I'. 'I' is a label, like Simon, that was given to me when I was younger. By answering this I think I am indulging my ego. All that matters is the present. No past, no future, just the here and now. Think dog, right?
Argh! Struggling with this one! I've read it a few times over. Either this sentence is lost on me or you might have mistyped it? I'm still a bit hazy on the topic of awareness/ consciousness. Can you elaborate, please? Do I take this to mean awareness = consciousness? Or it doesn't? I'm still a little lost on this.

Many thanks,

Simon.

User avatar
Anotherway2b
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Anotherway2b » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:20 pm

Hello again,

Last time. Think I got in a muddle with the quote function!!:
Is a collection of electro-chemical processes, conditioning, learned cues, data processing by an organic computer a self?
Yes it is. These processes are used to guide thought, to make sense of experience. They take hold at an early age and remain with you as you grow older. Combined with language they are used to create an illusion of the self that when you break down and challenge it falls away quite easily. There's a brutal simplicity to it all that I never truly acknowledged before.

Is awareness all there is?]
I'm still grappling with this a little. Can you expand? Does this mean that things outside of awareness don't exist? They do though don't they?
Who are you really?
There is no 'you', no 'I'. 'I' is a label, like Simon, that was given to me when I was younger. By answering this I think I am indulging my ego. All that matters is the present. No past, no future, just the here and now. Think dog, right?
If awareness can't be separated It just is and awareness is consciousness? How does that change perceptions?
Argh! Struggling with this one! I've read it a few times over. Either this sentence is lost on me or you might have mistyped it? I'm still a bit hazy on the topic of awareness/ consciousness. Can you elaborate, please? Do I take this to mean awareness = consciousness? Or it doesn't? I'm still a little lost on this.

Many thanks,

Simon.

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Metta777 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:37 am

Hi Simon,

It seems that there is awareness that self is an illusion and how that happens.
I'm still grappling with this a little. Can you expand? Does this mean that things outside of awareness don't exist? They do though don't they?
What is your experience of that? When eating,sleeping, seeing,smelling, etc., bring your focus onto these senses while experiencing them. Is there an existence of anything outside awareness or is everything just awareness itself?

When you were meditating and changed focus, expanded and contracted, it changed the perception of reality. there was noticing of discomfort, then expanding changed the sensation. What does that experience tell you about awareness/consciousness? Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Anotherway2b
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Anotherway2b » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:11 pm

Hi Metta,

My experience was one of conflict over my understanding of awarenesses. I couldn't reconcile the concepts that things exist outside of awareness and nothing exists except awareness. Eg; I'm aware there is a chair in the front room but because I can't see it with my own eyes that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I hope I've put that across properly! It seems confusing as I write it so I'm not sure if I've articulated it right. My mind was playing tricks on me with it all but I think I've grasped it now. Here goes:

My senses (touch, taste, sight etc) produce experience. This provides awareness. The two coexist. Therefore does anything exist to me outside of what is obtained through my senses? No. I guess not. In this way everything is courtesy of awareness. And this Everything is open to interpretation and perspective.

When I zoomed in and out during the meditation it altered my experience. Zooming in increased the discomfort and zooming out decreased it. Consciousness and awareness are open to spin. They can be altered. I understand this from psychology. Two people can experience exactly the same event but their interpretation can be completely different. This interpretation is guided by the way they have been conditioned as they have grown. Their blueprint or working model, that came into fruition when they were younger and has remained with them ever since.

But now it seems that my understanding of this blueprint doesn't carry the same kind of weight as it carried before. What matters is the here and now. Not what's gone on in the past or what will happen it the future.

Thanks for your guidance,

Simon.

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Metta777 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:34 pm

Hi Simon,

So knowing that the brain alters experience is it possible that things are seen through a filter? A filter of conditioning and labels. Look at a picture upside down and try to experience it without labels, it will be difficult, why, because the brain jumps instantly into action to classify and label the experience. It will try to make sense of it.

Now I ask you is there really a chair? Or a self? Or is there just the experience of the chair or imagined self? Is there just awareness/consciousness of direct experience? Take away the beliefs that are already there, take away the story of Simon, take away memory of events that no longer exist and what it left? Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Anotherway2b
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Anotherway2b » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:20 pm

Hey Metta,
So knowing that the brain alters experience is it possible that things are seen through a filter?


Yes, yes it is. I understand this (or should I say, 'there is understanding'). Memories of past experience influence perception. These memories have constantly impacted the way I have lived my life. Language has also constricted and shaped my understanding of reality. Words it seem are not enough. Labels have their uses and like memories they have served as a method of making sense of experience. But when you question them this sense gets loses its significance somehow.

My thinking has been challenged and its led me to feel different now compared to how I previously did. Knowing this is refreshing. What's happened has happened. Every new moment is a new opportunity. The present. The simplicity of it all. It's inspiring.

My mind can't help to label things as it experiences them. I know this is a learnt response. A reflex that I've always taken for granted and never thought to question before. And now I am questioning this and it feels exciting. If I look at a picture upside down or not what is being seen are shapes, colours, and lines etc. The instant I begin interpreting or trying to make sense of it that's when the brain takes hold.
Take away the beliefs that are already there, take away the story of Simon, take away memory of events that no longer exist and what is left?
What is left is an entity. A human being. A human being in the here and now. That's really all there is. It's quite humbling. Some one with the label of Simon, given to him years ago. Assumed by him to be him. There is a 32 year old typical male body that, among other bodily organs, contains a brain with memories that also works to aid the senses. That's really all there is!

Many thanks,

Simon (!)

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Metta777 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:16 pm

Dear Simon,
Some one with the label of Simon, given to him years ago. Assumed by him to be him. There is a 32 year old typical male body that, among other bodily organs, contains a brain with memories that also works to aid the senses. That's really all there is!


Matter is energy where the vibration is slowed down so much there is some solidity. Direct experience of the senses and body. Is awareness confined to a body? Or is awareness all there is? Remember when looking in the mirror , within minutes of leaving the mirror you can't recall the face you looked at. Are you a body then? Like an organic computer driven mannikin? Regards, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Anotherway2b
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Requesting a guide

Postby Anotherway2b » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:58 pm

Hi Metta,
Is awareness confined to a body? Or is awareness all there is?
Awareness is all there is? Ok, I might need an extra push here, please. I understand there is no self. I'm now mindful of the way language and neurobiological imprints distort the perception of reality. All that really exists is awareness? This therefore means I'm not a body then? I am just awareness? But I am tangible. I have substance to me. But this is just the product of a bundle of energy?

This feels like it's taking the process further. It's appealing but a little scary too. An organic computer driven manikin? Does this mean that the body that 'Simon' inhabits is just a vehicle with awareness as the driver?Everything around him perceived to be real is also just a product of awareness, an experience, provided to him through a filter? There is no boundary to this awareness either? You can't really see what it begins or where it ends.

I want to think this through but should I just follow my gut and go with you on this? Please elucidate! I'm experiencing some confusion here.

Thanks,

Simon.


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest