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I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:22 pm
by BlakeRP
Hello there, my name is Blake and I appear to be here, seeking a guide. I come with the baggage of a very brief lifetime of mystical exploration, studying magick/witchcraft, shamanism, psychic development, and so much more. I am a Reiki energy healing Master with numerous YouTube videos offering energy healing activations for free. Ever since last summer I had a powerful energy awakening where I became fully aware of a "light body" around me and began studying a modern system called Awaken Your Light Body which has been more powerful, vivid, real, experiential, transcendental and useful in my life than anything else ever has. However, that being said, there are many years of work in this system to get to the parts where they go into experiencing the paradoxical states of consciousness they identify as No-Self. While I don't see experiencing "No-Self" as a goal to be achieved, it is something that I find myself very curious about - especially since my dad went through a shift that eliminated his self. He found this site post-shift (I got to watch his entire transformation over the past year or so) and now I've found it and want to understand him, and myself, better from this "No-Self" awareness. So for that, I am asking for a guide who will point me in the right direction - preferably one that either has a mild familiarity with "lightworkers" or "energy healers" or at least respect for them and their terminology. I've encountered many diverse teachers who can't seem to respect anything New Age and since a lot of my experiences go through that filter, I wanted to put it on the table right from the start.

Thank you all in advance,
Blake R. P.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:26 pm
by Ilona
Hi Blake, welcome to the forum.
Nice intro. :)
Yes, I can help you look.
Only thing, this no self thingy is not about state, nor there is a no-self to be seen, no self means zero. No self at all as in there is nothing here, empty.

In other words, there is no separate self, no I, that is manager, doer, thinker, that lives in the body and has experiences, no I that is observing, witnessing all and choosing what is next.
all there is is life flowing freely, as one movement. Life is happening, by itself.

How does this statement make you feel? Did you find any " yeah, but... ", any resistances came up?
How about tensions in the body?

Sit with this for a bit and write what comes up.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:49 pm
by BlakeRP
What comes up is definitely in the "Yeah, but..." category. I don't have any great feeling reactions to it at this moment, but I have in the past when talking to my father about this. It's simply that I do not see what you are saying as true - experientially. I grasp the theory and I don't doubt what people are experiencing here - but "I am" still here and I still see life through this prism called Self. Therefore, how can I possibly have anything else than a "Yeah but..." reaction? Even my own spiritual practices show me how my personality is an illusion, but the nature of that illusion and the nature of the beingness that is experiencing it as real remain a total mystery to me.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:21 pm
by Ilona
What do you expect that seeing no self experientialy would feel like?
How about right now, is anything at all missing, incomplete?

Feel the touch, breathing, hear sounds, see colours and shapes, smell, this is what is happening experientialy. + there is thinking going on. There is sensation of thinking and feeling.

The rest is in imagination- the I that is having experiences, is imagined.

Test it now. Is there a hearer of sound? Can hearing be switched on or off?
What is behind hearing doing hearing? Is there a gap between hearer, sound and hearing?

Look in your experience and describe what you see.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:38 pm
by BlakeRP
Firstly, I have no expectations of what seeing no self experientially would feel like, especially when it's been drilled into my brain nonstop for the past year or so that there is no way to explain it and every paradox imaginable has come up in my discussions with my dad, leaving me with nothing but a confusing garbled mess. When it comes to matters of consciousness or energy or meditation, things like that, I've lost most of my expectations because I've seen miracles happen with the most minimal of effort and nothing happen with great effort and everything in between. But as for what I "imagine" it might feel like - I can't come up with any earth terms to describe that sense. It's like trying to understand what having sex feels like when it's being explained by someone who has never had it.

And I've had experiences where my consciousness turns off and I don't hear anything - like when you doze off for a few minutes and don't hear anything going on around you. This has happened a couple of times in my meditation work. These are usually the rare moments when my entire mind is silent and thoughtless. Right this moment, however, I am not able to find any gaps and no, I cannot find the "I" that is hearing these sounds. And yet, here I am, hearing sounds.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:50 pm
by Ilona
Lets keep the focus on what is happening now, not in the past, we are examining what is going on and look at experience now.

There is hearing happenin, yes. Or one can say, I am hearing. Does that mean there is a hearer?
There is breathing happening, is there an I that breathes?
There is thinking happening, I am thinking, is it I that thinks, or it's just another way to express what is happening through language?

Is I more then a thought?
Is there a separate entity, I , outside of thought? Can it be experienced through senses?
Can a thought think?

No rush, answer after having a good look.

Sending love.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:50 am
by BlakeRP
I'll do my best to remain focused on the present, but I am sure you can imagine how difficult it is to answer these questions focused wholly on the present moment - especially when studying and understanding consciousness, both directly through spiritual exploration and through the prism of sociology and the scientific research of the Institute of Noetic Sciences. With that in mind, I will do my best to narrow my focus.

Breathing is an autonomic biological response - if there is an "I" then it's not even involved in that. Hearing as well. Consciousness receives sound and it is interpreted through socialized labels. I already know this is not "I" - at best, this is the socialized consciousness. I know THAT is illusion, but "I" am still here experiencing breath, hearing, and life.

Thinking is the harder thing to discuss let alone explore. I feel thoughts arise that I did not create - like little mouths in the brain that never stop chattering. "I" am listening/observing them. But, I still create thoughts. I imagine and visualize; I use reason and logic and initiate processes of consciousness. I do not sense this as an accident of language. I perceive thoughts and I create thoughts as well as receive thoughts from the mish mash of my consciousness.

Forgive me but I'm not sure I did a good job narrowing my focus ^_^;;

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:05 am
by Ilona
Yes good job.

Now look at thoughts, wait for next one to come up. Where are they coming from?
Can you know what the next thought is going to be? Can you stop thinking for half an hour? Can you stop a thought from coming? Can a thought itself think?
What can a thought do?

Keep focus.

Sending love.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:17 pm
by BlakeRP
My thoughts can appear whenever I have emotions - the emotion precedes thought in this instance. I can have thoughts that just pop out of nowhere. It's interesting you should ask "where are they coming from." Just recently I was learning a "Light Body skill" where one places light around thoughts to quiet them, searching for the "source" of the thoughts. The source was always "outside" of my own head, like being picked up by the antennae of consciousness from the world around me. But I digress - essentially, the vast majority of the thoughts I have seem to be put upon me versus created. No, I don't know what my next thought will be. If there is a way to stop thinking for long periods of time, I don't know it. I can quiet my mind but for the most part I can't stop a thought. As for whether thoughts can think, I don't know but I'll say no, I don't think so.

Thoughts can evolve once awareness is put into them, or they can flitter away when they are let go of, or they can circle around and around and around when my mind and emotions are entangled in an issue. But the thought itself, it doesn't seem to do very much other than just voicing itself.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:08 am
by Ilona
Very nice observations. Now look at thought I, is it coming from a different place then all other thoughts? Is it a thinker of thoughts or just another thought appearing from nowhere?
How about thought me?
What is behind that thought? Is there an entity, separated from the whole?

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:42 pm
by BlakeRP
There are "I/me" thoughts that are just as much a thought coming in as any other thought that pops in. But then there's the thinker which uses the words "I/me" to indicate itself. The thinker, of course, I know is the "habitus" a sociology term meaning the entire matrix of experiences, memories, lessons, and socialization - and I know that this isn't exactly a real thing. Intellectually, I get that. But I don't see it as "just that" and "not real." Because it's real to me. Intellectually, I know that beneath the illusion we call life there is the infinite oneness. Even the Institute of Noetic Sciences is constantly finding evidence for that, but intellectually getting that doesn't prevent this experience of being an individual "person."

Also, I'm reading the Gatecrashers book and I kind of know what the answers are, intellectually. This doesn't really help me, because it just sets up this "I know what she's looking for" kinda pattern. Or "I know what to expect" sort of. When I look internally, it's almost like a feeling of wasting my time. Perhaps I need a stronger whack with the zen stick per se?

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:34 pm
by Ilona
Haha, you want a slap?
Shut up and look. :)
Don't look for intellectual answers and how it fits your nice little theory. Look as in actually look. In real life. In your experience right now. Is there a separate individual entity that is disconnected from everything else? Where is it? Can it be touched, seen, heard, tasted or smelled? Is there a boundary between here and there? Is there a line that divides inside from outside?

Is the thought I the thinker? Doer? Is it I reading these words, or reading is effortlessly happening?

Can you not read these words?
Is there a you, the chooser, manager, controller, that which owns life and is in charge? Is life happening to Blake or as Blake?

Answer these questions with whole honesty, by yourself, not from what you read or heard, honesty and burning for truth no matter what is what you need here right now. Find out for yourself what is true.

Write to me what reactions comes up when you sit with questions as well as how you answer each one of them in full. The more you write, the more mind focuses.

With love.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:28 am
by BlakeRP
I'm still sitting with these, but I don't think doing any more sitting before I start writing will do me any good so here goes. In looking for "I/me" I can't find "I" it's part of the thoughts. I can't find, see, grab, taste, touch or hear "me" but at the same time I can't shake this sense of me-ness, that there's me in here somewhere. I don't claim that it's anything that is in control of all life, but there seems to be SOME sort of chooser, sometimes. SOMETHING is in here that DOES things, even as all of Life seems to do itself, or thoughts pop in or emotions come up. There's mountains of things that happen TO Blake, but there's also some sliver of Blake doing something. That there's a me in here somewhere that has some semblance of choice, of desire, of realness - something that's real but at the same time unfindable no matter how much I've looked today. When I started this dialogue and kept reading the Gatecrasher book, I kept having this thought, "I'M RIGHT HERE DAMNIT, CAN'T YOU SEE ME?!" But I realize now that that's just another thought, and that particularly loud thought comes up from fear. Fear that "I" am wrong about my realness, that I am wrong about so many things and if I find out the truth, I will lose everything. My biggest fear that keeps coming back is that I'm going to lose everything that meant something to me at a deep level, like my spiritual system. Not that anything in it contradicts anything we've discussed, per se, but it's the only thing that ever felt right in my life without leaving me feeling incomplete. But if I'm not even here, who would be there to love this? Who would be there to need it? Who IS there? I don't know anymore.

Did "I" ever know anything?

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:57 am
by Ilona
The thing is, there is no who. It's a constructor language and useful in communicating, but there is no subject, that is experiencing life, love, anger, whatever comes up, it's an experiencing in action, it's only language that makes it appear otherwise.
Have a read these blogposts and do the exercise, then write to me what you noticed, does description affect what is happening and if so, how? ... guage.html

And don't worry, nothing real can disappear or get destroyed, once the illusion of separation is seen through, only lies, beliefs and concepts fall away, like leaves in autum.. Sometimes there is work to be done to see through beliefs. But none of them are yours to own. As you see when you look, there is nothing there! :)

Sending love.

Re: I seem to be seeking a Guide

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:22 pm
by BlakeRP
I apologize for being gone for about a month. After reflecting on our conversations, I kind of just let Life distract me until I had a few conversations with my father (Francis Kenney). Even though my thoughts told me I had decided this wasn't for me, because I don't agree with your philosophy, listening to him I found myself agreeing with him to finish what I started. So, here I am. Just a caveat, though, is that in a couple of days I'm going to be traveling for about a month and a half, so there may be several days at a stretch that I don't reply. I will do my best to return as much as possible, because there seems to be a readiness or a ripeness to this intention - that's the best way I can put it.

I reviewed the two links you sent me to yesterday and just did the exercise today to have it fresh. It definitely seemed like the second part was more comfortable, once I got used to the idea. Every time I marked something down, it was just gone and the next thing arose. I felt more peaceful and happy, even though I wasn't doing the thinking or the hearing or the feeling. There was just the experience. The way things moved from one thing to the next after giving it attention and writing it reminded me of the states of consciousness I feel during light body meditations that I can only describe as emotional flow and mental fluidity - attention is simply given to the experience, emotion, thought, or sensation that comes up, being the experience as fully as possible, until it flows into the next one. It wasn't as vivid as the energy of the meditations, but it was just as peaceful and comfortable to me.

After talking with my father the other night, there is one thing I want to bring up. For me, the "Self" is "the thing that does the looking." The best way I could describe it was being a video camera that is always set on record and the Self is the thing that points it, adjusts the focus, etc. Just because it cannot be seen doesn't mean it isn't there, necessarily. This is what my looking lead me to.