Guide wanted.

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maza
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Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 9:26 pm

Guide wanted.

Postby maza » Sat May 18, 2013 10:45 pm

May I have a guide please?

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Paulo
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby Paulo » Sun May 19, 2013 1:45 am

Hi maza, my name's Paulo.

Tell me a little about why you want a guide, what brings you here now?

Paulo.

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maza
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby maza » Sun May 19, 2013 4:43 am

Paulo, I've been seeking this whole lifetime & am here at your door today, still in need of guidance, having been introduced to the site by another seeker. I need help through.
Maza.

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Paulo
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby Paulo » Sun May 19, 2013 8:20 am

Hi maza,

Tell me what it is you are seeking?

What do you expect to find here?

Love, Paulo.

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maza
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby maza » Sun May 19, 2013 5:47 pm

"Tell me what it is you are seeking?"
Realisation
Enlightenment
End of Suffering
End of self
no self
all of which is understood to be here already so...
...awakening.
"What do you expect to find here?"
possibly a kick up the ass to wake me up
possibly the same in a less agressive manner
does not matter as long as it wakes me up.

Do these answers pass muster? Will you guide me, Paulo? Thank you for loving me. That moves me to tears - or causes emotion within.

Maza.

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Paulo
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby Paulo » Sun May 19, 2013 10:18 pm

Thank you maza,

Just a few ground rules -

1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from personal experience only.
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main page - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

If you are happy to agree to the above, let me know and we can begin.

Paulo :-)

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maza
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby maza » Mon May 20, 2013 9:25 am

Agreed.

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Paulo
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby Paulo » Mon May 20, 2013 10:42 am

Thank you maza,

Let’s start by looking at your expectations –

All we do here is look at the illusion of self, that’s all. Expectations such as realisation, enlightenment, or end of suffering, are just that – expectations. They may or may not correspond to reality as you find it. Reality is what it is.

Are you still prepared to embark on this process, even if it means that life will pretty much go on as it always has?

Consider the statement below –

There is no ‘I’ in reality, never was and never will be.

Share whatever comes up for you in terms of thoughts and feelings when you read the statement above.

Paulo :-)

[You might also find the quote function useful (it will help you when responding to messages here) - http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660 ]

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maza
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby maza » Mon May 20, 2013 8:32 pm

“Are you still prepared to embark on this process, even if it means that life will pretty much go on as it always has?” – Got to. Want to. Does not seem like there is a choice.

“There is no ‘I’ in reality, never was and never will be.
Share whatever comes up for you in terms of thoughts and feelings when you read the statement above.” – Great. Let’s get on with it then. This I thing is overrated anyway! “I” am just sorry that I spend all this time being deluded – was going to say deluding myself but understand there is no self anyway, so no-one has delude no-one, & there has just been delusion. & how do I know there is no self – because of all the dharma stuff that “I” have been blessed with in reading & hearing over the last 30 years – it has led me here. I understand that you want direct seeing rather than belief but do not know how to tell the difference – so presumably all belief.

This I thing being overrated – not in control of any self, having tried hard, but if there were a self, it would be so obviously out of control. I see this body as a bit like a drone bee, working for the sake of the community. This body & loads of others all playing a role, predetermined by our genes and certainly our karma (all belief). Then looking into this body, there are billions of cells, all apparently alive & within them the organelles & mitochondria & the latter having their own DNA not connected to that of this body. So “I” know that I call this body me, but don’t believe that I exist. Only a body performing a predetermined function. Every girl says she will not turn out like her mother & then she does, or worse still, like her grandmother. What control? None. Not my body but lots of delusion along the way. All belief & not direct seeing. What do I look at to see directly? Would sit, asking, listening.
Thank you.
Marion.

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Paulo
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby Paulo » Mon May 20, 2013 11:54 pm

Thank you Marion,

Since you ask what is the difference between belief and direct experience, let us look at each of the elements of direct experience in turn. [ I also recommend this article on direct experience from Neil here - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html ].

We will first look at THOUGHT –

Think of a car.

Share your experience of what happens when you think of the above in as much detail as you can.

How did the thought arrive? Was there a ‘you’ there choosing the particular car that appeared in thought, it's colour, size, etc?

How did that particular car appear from all the possible cars that could have appeared?


Paulo.

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maza
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby maza » Tue May 21, 2013 7:35 am

Paulo, reporting this before moving onto your response below. Spent time looking in last night, asking "Do I exist". No answer. Went to bed asking same. On waking, asking & looking. Not this body. not the face nor the hair, nor the eyes - what about the eyes? Am I the black space of the pupil? Gas exists & that can be invisible. Am I the pupil? no because both eyes could be removed and I would still think I existed. Still looking, searching around. There is nothing else. there is nothing else to answer with. nothing else to examine. there is nothing. there is nothing. nothing. nothing. amusement.

Will now read your response below & work with that.
Regards,
Marion.

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Paulo
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby Paulo » Tue May 21, 2013 9:53 am

Thank you Marion, I look forward to your response.

Paulo.

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maza
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby maza » Tue May 21, 2013 2:01 pm

"Think of a car. Share your experience of what happens when you think of the above in as much detail as you can"

OK. Having to think of a car. Conscious effort. Mind’s effort
Mind trying to come up with something which suits purpose
Excludes family vehicles as feeling a need for something forming a memorable picture
Don’t know why.
Got it. Big, sunshine yellow, VW Beetle
Feeling of pleasure having arrived at task
Mind wondering if boring, grey or blue cars first thought of should have been decided upon instead
Dismissed. Done. Moving on.

"How did the thought arrive? Was there a ‘you’ there choosing the particular car that appeared in thought, it's colour, size, etc?"

No. recognize that it was only mind doing it’s job. Doing what it does. Coming & going a bit with blue car, grey car, back and forth, something like going around in a circle until something arrives, wanting something easier to latch onto – big yellow funny one, memorable.

"How did that particular car appear from all the possible cars that could have appeared?" In above.

Regards,
Maza.

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Paulo
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby Paulo » Tue May 21, 2013 9:32 pm

Very nice Marion, good observational skill. You can see that thoughts pop into awareness in response to stimulii (my request for you to think of a car), and the are replaced by other thoughts after some time. You can also see that there is no 'I' there directing all this, and makes choices - it all happens on automatic.

Today, we will look at another aspect of direct experience - FEELINGS.

Think of something that made you feel happy.

Is there a Marion there making you feel happy, or creating that emotion?

Did the experience of happiness you’ve just had last, or did you begin feeling something else after some time?

How did this change happen, did you choose another thought to make the happiness fade?


Paulo.

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maza
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Re: Guide wanted.

Postby maza » Tue May 21, 2013 10:56 pm

“Is there a Marion there making you feel happy, or creating that emotion?” – NO. sunshine & blue sky always seems to result in a happy state of mind for me.. Seems like a chemical reaction to sunshine. Better than chocolate, so opiates in there somewhere. Biological process.

“Did the experience of happiness you’ve just had last, or did you begin feeling something else after some time? “ - It lasted until the another unrelated thought arose. Then when the eyes focus on the sunshine & blue sky again, back comes that associated happiness.

“How did this change happen, did you choose another thought to make the happiness fade?” - no subsequent thoughts were chosen, Paulo. It just happened. There has been watching of thoughts rising & falling, in Vipassana for a number of years, so when looking here, at the experience, “I” can see the trail of thoughts across that screen inside the head.
Thank you for taking the time to guide me, Paulo. I do appreciate that.
Marion.


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