Looking for Guidance.

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Philib
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Looking for Guidance.

Postby Philib » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:23 pm

Hi, I'm very appreciative of this website, I was recently told about it by a fellow order member seeker. I'm a member of the Triratna Buddhist order and have been for nearly 29 years! I've been interested in the more nonduality approach to awakening ever since coming across Eckhart Tolle's 'Power of Now' book. This led to going to some non-duality meetings with Roger Linden, Jeff Foster and Adyashanti. Tolle's book in particular had the effect of putting me in touch with my inner body and the pain that was held in it. There was much releasing of pain as a result and now meditations are sometimes, even often, accompanied by a sense of spaciousness within which all thoughts and feelings arise. There is however still the ability to hold onto a sense of self. At night and in the mornings I regularly experience fear in my heart and abdomen. My approach is to welcome it in and accept it as it is. This works well and I'm much happier with my shadow side. Though some things still really scare me, and there is resistance so I still don't think I've got it and would like some assistance with making this transition where it would be second nature to have this awareness. I would very much appreciate some guidance. Many thanks. Philib

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Life
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Life » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:07 pm

Hi Philip, somehow read your topic, would like to help you best I can. First lets focus on this one thing only, is there a separate self that meditates and things happen to?

guidelines: during our conversation no videos and books of other techniques, no need to leave the buddist order or stop meditating of course ;). Post at least once a day, try to answer the exact question asked and above all first check in the direct experience of everyday life first.

Ok first tell me what exactly your expectations of seeing there is no self are? Besides the awareness you mention, we'll get to this later.

oh and typing is slow here so might be responding a bit slow now and again.

With love, Life
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Philib
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Philib » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:12 pm

Hi Life,
Thanks for the quick response.
To respond to your initial question. Yes I would say that is my honest answer that there is a separate self that meditates and things happen to. Though I know the theory that says otherwise, and I accept that my perception is not correct as when I really get into it there are just things rising and passing away.
Guidelines: Happy to go along with the guidelines, though I had in mind downloading some Eckhart Tolle talks this week as I signed up to his site recently. But will desist that if you think it will help this process.
Answering your second question. My expectation of seeing there is no self, is there will not be this restless seeking. It will be more resting with what is. Described to me once as release of pressure from a vacuum bell jar. That sounds good to me :)

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Life
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Life » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:59 pm

If things are noticed to be rising and passing away in meditation it must also be the case now, right? Meditation happening without a meditator, could this be true? Really consider this, things happening as a part of the whole without a separate you. What comes up when you stare this very real possibility in the face? Look beyond the concepts and intellectual understanding.

if you want this process to ''work'' better to wait with downloading Tolle or at least put it asside for now.

good no unrealistic expectations.

take care, Life :)
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Philib
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Philib » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:18 pm

Hi Life, thanks for the reply, have been reflecting on this today in meditation and outside of it. It's a good question and I get a very physical response. When I look at things happening as a part of the whole without a separate me, I get these physical jolts in my body in the area of the solar plexus. It does feel quite releasing.

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Life
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Life » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:49 pm

Hi Life, thanks for the reply, have been reflecting on this today in meditation and outside of it. It's a good question and I get a very physical response. When I look at things happening as a part of the whole without a separate me, I get these physical jolts in my body in the area of the solar plexus. It does feel quite releasing.
Alright, although we are not looking for a feeling which is always going to be impermanent and can pretty fast turn into a struggle to repeat the special feeling state or experience. So jolts and a releasing feeling, is it you this happens to or is it just happening? Can you look behind or prior to this? Is anything there?

Take all the time needed to really look for yourself, do not try to give the right answer or repeat something read or heard, be as uncompromisingly honest as possible here, okay? This works best :)
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Philib
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Philib » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:38 pm

First of all an apology. I'm sorry I thought you'd written "try to post every day". Having just scrolled back I realise you said "post at least once a day" In your last post you had said "take all the time needed". I felt I didn't have anything very formulated to say yesterday. So I thought I'd leave it till I was clearer. Yes I have been busy these last couple of days, but actually more time doesn't seem to make me much clearer. So in future I will endeavour to do as requested and post at least once a day.
The truth is your questions are very penetrating and anxious confusion arises in me. Maybe this is due to trying to give the right answer. Yesterday I dwelt a fair bit on looking "prior or behind" my experiences. The fact is there doesn't seem to be anybody "an I" that is doing any of this. Even when I was at a yoga class this morning and following instructions. I was aware that instructions were being followed and that there were decisions being made about how far to go into a pose. But was there an 'I' making those decisions? No they didn't seem to be!
But is there right now an 'I' that feels all anxious and confused and wanting to say the right thing? Yes I think there is! Though I know there can't be.

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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Life » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:49 pm

First of all an apology. I'm sorry I thought you'd written "try to post every day". Having just scrolled back I realise you said "post at least once a day" In your last post you had said "take all the time needed". I felt I didn't have anything very formulated to say yesterday. So I thought I'd leave it till I was clearer. Yes I have been busy these last couple of days, but actually more time doesn't seem to make me much clearer. So in future I will endeavour to do as requested and post at least once a day.
No big deal, seeing it now it looks unclear :) Just post regularly, most important is to first really check in experience and so be quite sure before answering and be brutally honest.
But is there right now an 'I' that feels all anxious and confused and wanting to say the right thing?

Yes I think there is!
Though I know there can't be.
Do you think or does the thought ''I think there is an I feeling anxious and confused'' arise?
What is the I that knows? What would you say I is?

Feelings like being anxious, fearful, angry, sad or laughter come up stay a while and disappear without a trace, can you have a look behind the emotions? Anything there having it or just emotions in motion?

Alright enough to chew on for now, talk soon!
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Philib
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Philib » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:50 pm

No big deal, seeing it now it looks unclear :) Just post regularly,
Thanks for the response. I'll relax around this and will respond regularly, daily being the aim without that being a strict rule :)
most important is to first really check in experience and so be quite sure before answering and be brutally honest.
Yes, I take the point here. Which is why I have resisted responding, because I think I don't always feel 'checked into experience' hence my reluctance to reply. However I'm now beginning to see that not being checked into experience is not really possible. The anxious and confused feelings and thoughts are arising in awareness without a self that owns them. Though the awareness that they appear into seems very refined, but sometimes, trying to brutally honest here, seems located almost in front of me around my head, but then, looking again seems extended into the space around me. But then the me, (body) is just a concept too! I was just thinking that awareness is here anyway and not half a mile down the road, but then I realised that half a mile down the road is just an idea too! There is no real half a mile down the road. There is just this experiencing. So, answering your other questions, there is no 'I' that knows, even the sense of an 'I' is another idea.

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Life
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Life » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:16 am

Ok, how about emotions? :) When your feeling anxious to reply, step into it, allow it to come up, totally feel it trough... now look, is anything there feeling anxious or just anxiousness arising without a feeler?
there is no 'I' that knows, even the sense of an 'I' is another idea.
Sounds good ;) Lets look deeper into this, I is an idea you said, why? What is an idea? What does the idea I consist of?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Philib
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Philib » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:27 am

To be honest I dread answering these questions. Even though I think they are pertinent and kindly expressed. I just don't know what to say…
So here goes. Having said that I'm glad you're still asking them and not convinced I'd made it from my last posting.
Last night I felt like a waiter who had balanced too many plates on top of each other, after struggling to get to grips with your questions.
Ok, how about emotions? :) When your feeling anxious to reply, step into it, allow it to come up, totally feel it trough... now look, is anything there feeling anxious or just anxiousness arising without a feeler?
so I just spent some time attempting to do this. The feelings that came up were anger and physically clenching my teeth in the kind of inner pain. But was there a feeler? I couldn't say there was. I still holding onto the idea of a feeler? Yes I think so even though I know it's illusory.
Can I give a bit of background about myself? I hope so. It's not unusual for me to contact this sudden clenching of the teeth and sense of strain in yoga and meditation. But most of the time I feel usually peaceful and happy states. (I'm not saying this as any justification of anything but just as an enquiry into myself. Because I find myself quite perplexing.) People find me generally relaxed happy and non-reactive. And that's not untrue, because I do feel that! But it seems a rather stark contrast to what I experience when I start doing this enquiry.
So back to your question.
Last night, having wrestled with your questions I awoke in the night and felt particularly anxious. Even wondering whether this practice was driving me to be too wilful. But I turned towards the experience and just accepted it arising as best I could, reminding myself that it was just experience arising. There was the moment when a lot of release occurred as a result and I fell back to sleep. I still woke up feeling quite anxious and strained and was glad of a day of physical work and soon felt fine and happy.
Sounds good ;) Lets look deeper into this, I is an idea you said, why? What is an idea? What does the idea I consist of?
Sorry Life, this looks like a good question, but it needs some reflection, it's late, I'll have to answer it tomorrow. Sorry for my ramblings. I'll try not to make a habit of them. :)

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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Life » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:47 am

Alright Philib, your doing fine thanks for your honesty.

Feeling anxious, feeling happy happens, do you have any control over this?

Sorry for my ramblings you said, how do they happen exactly? Take a closer look there, feelings appear, thoughts appear, words are typed, do you really decide which thoughts appear and what eventually appeared on my screen?

Take your time, first answer the earlier question.
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Philib
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Philib » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:46 pm

I'm feeling more relaxed around this process:)
going back to your previous question.
[quote]
Sounds good ;) Lets look deeper into this, I is an idea you said, why? What is an idea? What does the idea I consist of?
[quote/]
Well I is an idea because what's experienced is just this presence. At any moment what's arising changes. There is when checking in a sense of the watcher. But that doesn't seem to have a location. Is it something personal? There is a sense that if I really let go it will become completely universal. There is a kind of holding on which makes it seem located/personal. But there are glimpses, flashes even, when the sense of anything personal or located seems to go away. So an idea, or the 'I' idea, is a holding on. You'll probably ask holding on by whom! If I get to the bottom of that you probably won't need to ask any more questions :)
That's all I have for now, will answer follow on questions soon, though can't promise tomorrow as another busy day.
Thanks for everything so far :)

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Life
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Life » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:53 pm

Could this I idea be just a thought?

Is there really such a thing as a watcher? Do you have any control over when there is watching? Are you this watcher?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Philib
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Re: Looking for Guidance.

Postby Philib » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:29 am

Alright Philib, your doing fine thanks for your honesty.

Feeling anxious, feeling happy happens, do you have any control over this?

Sorry for my ramblings you said, how do they happen exactly? Take a closer look there, feelings appear, thoughts appear, words are typed, do you really decide which thoughts appear and what eventually appeared on my screen?

Take your time
Well, apologies, I have taken more time than intended but mainly because of family business intervening.
In a very ordinary way I do feel like I have control over whether I feel anxious. Just paying attention to sensations seems to help them melt away pretty rapidly. But I imagine you are asking for something deeper than that. Am I really deciding what I am writing now? Well I can see in a sense no. There is no person in a control box directing the typing. There is a flow of a mixture of anxious and relaxed feelings and words get typed. Then there is a sense of a watcher, but that feels like just an event too. When the sense of a self or doer is let go of that is pleasant. But the doer reasserts itself, unpleasant.
But then I reflect am I making that doer arising a problem? That seems a golden opportunity to see something.


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