Simple awakening, truth.

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horace
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby horace » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:01 pm

I worked your questions in numbered order.
1. I don't know. It seems to be a part of the dance of everything. Movement happens in the moment on its own. My heart beats, my arm raises a glass for me to drink. Both are the same. They just happen.
2. Just as the idea that there is a subjective "I" is a thought, so, too, are choices. That "I" make a "choice" is only the content of a thought: a fiction. So there is no such thing as an actual choice. Like movement, things happen on their own, without input from an "I."
3. If any thing is doing this, it must be everything, totality. When I am focusing on the present, there is no separation. Things happen together.
4. If I can't find "myself," then it must have never existed at all, which means that nothing changes when the lack of self is realizes. Things are the same as they always were, only I will recognize it for what it really is, a fiction.

I feel as if I have caught glimpses of the truth, but nothing definite enough to break through and make it stick.

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horace
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby horace » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:09 am

So I sat down with a notebook and tried to pin down where I'm at:

All that ther is, is awareness. All perceptions, thoughts, feelings, objects are within awareness. Awareness cannot act in the sense that "I" act. It simply observes. Nor can it observe itself. It is not a "thing." It is an act, a process. The thoughts and concepts of "I" exist, along with everything else, within this awareness. Therefore, "I" cannot be the perceiver or doer. Things happen, manifest, but no thing "does" them. They simply happen, manifest. Any thing that takes place is in this awareness, including the "things inside my head" and the concept of awareness itself. But, awareness is no thing other than every thing, because without every thing, there would be no thing of which to be aware.

The question remains, though, how can this be realized, recognized experientially?

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horace
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby horace » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:39 am

I suppose the answer if to realize the illusion of a self: what were trying to do =-)

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Elizabeth
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby Elizabeth » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:51 am

Hi Horace, my last post disappeared! Just replying to you. I see you are online.
This is rubber meets road. You see it intellectually, but not experiencing it as clarity.
So we put ourselves in intimate and abrasive contact with the experience of self.
You utilize intellect, stubborness, emotional energy of all kinds, even physical strengths, and don't let a single assumption or action pass by without looking at how it is constructed around self. Notice that self is selfish, self-absorbed, self-centered, and the center of the world. It appropriates everything to it's use. Notice it in others.
Living in intense awareness of the lie uncomfortable. And it's the only way to experience how the illusion is put together, for you. See it through and through.
And thanks for checking in, keep writing what you see, nailing the thoughts down has a great deal of value on a truth hunt.
Love, Elizabeth

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horace
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby horace » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:47 pm

I am drowning with self. I couldn't even get past the first thing I noticed upon reading this without a deluge of narration, judgment, excuse, abuse, etc.
This pursuit -- to recognize the non-existence of self -- is in itself a selfish act. "I" am tired of all the various frustrations created by the chronic association with an idea or concept that entails a belief that the world can be meddled with and effected to match the desires also associated with this concept.
Realizing this brought on a slew of exclamations "from" myself, all amounting to, "this is a hopeless endevor. You might as well just give up."
I will not give up, but it does raise the question, "how do we use the self to realize it doesn't exist?"
My method at the moment is to try to observe the arising of selfish thoughts (thoughts involving the self, which is really all thoughts, isn't is?) And then questioning them: "is it real? Is this really how things are, or is it an interpretation filtered throught the self?" The problem I run into is the questioning is also associated with the self.

Any pointers would be much appreciated =-)

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horace
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby horace » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:30 pm

As an addendum to my previous post:
It seems as if anything I do is still the self acting, so I am staying buried in the illusion that I can act. There has to be some way to let go, but even that is an act. "Me" seeing the truth of the situation is an act as well. I already have that and its stuck in my mind, its not true seeing. Though I am confident that the illusion will break and I am not willing to give up at all, I am presently riddled with doubt about how to do so.

I trust and will do what you suggest. I just wanted to let you in on my concerns.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby Elizabeth » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:20 pm

Hi Horace,
Lost another post, will switch to PMs as people seem to get those. Don't think I am ignoring you! Two posts have disappeared. Will copy and send PM in case the universe/internet is having another wee joke.
It IS crazy to think that we need to marshal all the self to investigate self, but this is what we have to work with.
Keep at it, looking at every action and thought for the way that self is constructing a scenario with self in the middle. ABOUT reality, not reality itself.
About the cup, not the cup. All the little stories.
No wonder we so often feel inauthentic, removed.
This really itches when you start noticing it, and tries to distract with all the stories that worked up till now. Doubt, intellectualizing, emotional revolt, physical squirming, you can probably add to the list.
What we do here is up the intensity and intent. No deviating, no matter what.
It works. Stay with it. You are doing exactly the right thing.
Keep writing, keep pinning the thoughts about down so you can see for yourself how they are either truth, or playing you. It's an amazing thing to look at in action.
Much love. Elizabeth

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horace
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby horace » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:45 pm

So, just to make sure we are on the same page, I am looking to see how the fiction is created. When I have a thought, "This is never going to work. I can't succeed." Instead of analyzing the content, just realize that it is a thought ABOUT, that is all -- the content is irrelevant and distracting from reality in this moment (which is really that there is a thought and disheartened feelings as well as but fingers typing, eyes scanning, heart beating, etc.).

This is only an example, not how I feel. You and this community have led me to feel very confident in this endeavor. (That is also only a thought) =-)

Thank you so much for all of your help and support, thus far and continuing.

Also, just so you know, I did not receive the PM copy of your latest post.

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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby Elizabeth » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:10 pm

"how the fiction is created" yes, that.
And how essentially irrelevant the fiction is to what is happening, in reality. Making a cup of tea, with enormous drama in head. Tea gets made.
It's not bad, it's just fiction. It's not a you. It's about a you. Odd we never noticed.
Notice how thoughts about, emotional tone and physical response go together. Emotional hijacking of body is noticed, and once body is set to defence/offence, how that whole pattern takes charge and dictates what happens next. Very automatic, till you notice it. If you get lost somewhere in the observation and are taken away by the story, just come back to the next story and keep at it. One will be along shortly. You might start experiencing the gaps.
All our energy goes into the looking. No need to go to war with it, unless you just like heat and intensity :-) Simple, LOOKING. Hard, to do simple.
What, in reality, is behind the story? And it's all a story till you see clear through the self story. What is really, really there?
Or, more amazingly, not there. Either will do.

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horace
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby horace » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:29 pm

Last night something happenes. I threw myself into observing myself, and quickly became incredibly stifled. I felt trapped in myself and was overcome by waves of despair and hopelessness and thoughts that it was impossible. The tension and discomfort continued to build, and I began to ask myself, "if I really exist, I will certainly be able to find myself amidst this, I'm drowning in it. So where am I?" Needless to say, I didn't find any thing, but that did nothing to help the trapped feelinf, which continued to build as I stuck with it.
All of a sudden, that feeling kind of fizzled out, leaving a space I bad noticed, but never felt, before. This time I felt it.
It's still there this morning. Very hard to describe. Thoughts keep coming up that I'm deluding myself, I haven't broken through, but I don't know.
I feel the same as I ever have, but different, like "I" have some wiggle room, a little more space than the trash compactor life was before.
Am I on to something? I'm. Very reticent to just outright claim I've broken through, especially because so much is the same. On the other hand, everything is slightly different, so in my gut it feels like I have. Basically, thoughts keep coming that I've hoodwinked myself, but it doesn't feel that way.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby Elizabeth » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:53 pm

Last night something happenes. I threw myself into observing myself, and quickly became incredibly stifled. I felt trapped in myself and was overcome by waves of despair and hopelessness and thoughts that it was impossible. The tension and discomfort continued to build, and I began to ask myself, "if I really exist, I will certainly be able to find myself amidst this, I'm drowning in it. So where am I?" Needless to say, I didn't find any thing, but that did nothing to help the trapped feelinf, which continued to build as I stuck with it.
All of a sudden, that feeling kind of fizzled out, leaving a space I bad noticed, but never felt, before. This time I felt it.
It's still there this morning. Very hard to describe. Thoughts keep coming up that I'm deluding myself, I haven't broken through, but I don't know.
I feel the same as I ever have, but different, like "I" have some wiggle room, a little more space than the trash compactor life was before.
Am I on to something? I'm. Very reticent to just outright claim I've broken through, especially because so much is the same. On the other hand, everything is slightly different, so in my gut it feels like I have. Basically, thoughts keep coming that I've hoodwinked myself, but it doesn't feel that way.
This is a good point, when do you know ?
Is this another transient experience, or a realization, a knowing that abides and grows?
I recommend doing exactly what you have been doing, continue looking with deep attention, honesty. Curious to see what happens next when the I is seen through, looking behind it, what does that lead to?
Something seems different, let's see what this has to say. How it lives.
I am as interested as you are.
We can take a little time, no hurries.
Much love.

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horace
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby horace » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:20 pm

When I look behind the "I," there is a space. That is all I can say about it. It is like standing at the edge of a lake on a dark night -- a vast empty fullness (or full emptiness). This feeling has grown over the course of the day, not receeded.
The strange thing is that there is still attachment to an "I" concept and everything that goes along with that, but I am not the attachment or the "I."
I can't really put it into words, specifically. Language gets in the way. Everything is happening, like before, but that is all. Even amidst struggly, the Grand Struggle isn't there. If it is, it is only in though

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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby Elizabeth » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:59 pm

When I look behind the "I," there is a space. That is all I can say about it. It is like standing at the edge of a lake on a dark night -- a vast empty fullness (or full emptiness). This feeling has grown over the course of the day, not receeded.
The strange thing is that there is still attachment to an "I" concept and everything that goes along with that, but I am not the attachment or the "I."
I can't really put it into words, specifically. Language gets in the way. Everything is happening, like before, but that is all. Even amidst struggly, the Grand Struggle isn't there. If it is, it is only in though
Lets stand in that spaciousness. Are you really looking behind an I?

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horace
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby horace » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:27 am

I don't know.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Simple awakening, truth.

Postby Elizabeth » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:14 am

I don't know.
I don't know is a wonderful thing.
You are looking right at an I thought, and the nothing behind it.

Do you exist?

Love. Elizabeth


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