Neil (cosmiK) & Nikola K

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cosmiK
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:15 pm

Neil (cosmiK) & Nikola K

Postby cosmiK » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:59 pm

Nikola KindRad
Hi, one explorer here. Who's got the maps? :)
Like · · Unfollow Post · October 17 at 12:03am

Elena Nezhinsky and 2 others like this.
Neil Jalaldeen We assist you in seeing through the illusion of the separate self/I/me/agent/doer. Ready?
October 17 at 12:09am via mobile · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad I am.
October 17 at 1:34am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Are you? where is the you that is ready Nikola?
October 17 at 1:34am · Like
Nikola KindRad in my head
October 17 at 1:57am · Like
Nikola KindRad I'll try to respond a bit faster, seems like we've got a connection.
October 17 at 1:58am · Unlike · 1
Neil Jalaldeen so... let me tell you how this works.

We agree to post at least once a day. I ask questions, you answer 110% honest from your direct Experience, instead of analysis, thought speculation and philosophy.

Agreed? :)
October 17 at 1:58am · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad OK
October 17 at 2:00am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen okay... so we share a 'human experience' right... can we agree that honey is sweet, and grass is green?
October 17 at 2:01am · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad +1
October 17 at 2:02am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen soon we will also be able to agree that there is no separate self :)

but... let's develop a system to break down Experience in to components:
1) thought
2) 5sensations (feeling (tactile+kinesthetic), seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling)
3) sense of presence/being/awareness/consciousness/whatever-we-wanna-call-it-ness

Can you investigate your Experience and confirm this is also accurate for your Experience... unless you are a space alien....
October 17 at 2:05am · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad human experience is quite a broad term though :)
October 17 at 2:06am · Like
Nikola KindRad you pretty much summarized it!
October 17 at 2:07am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Nikola, this is not about 'pretty much'... this is ACCURATE and Direct Experiencing. Check Now & Confirm.

get up, dance, sing, kiss your pet, eat some food, move your hand...

Get back to me when you can confirm this... no pretty much :)
October 17 at 2:09am · Like
Nikola KindRad there is also Will - something that uses the above.
October 17 at 2:09am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Okay... so Confirmed + 4) Will ... good to go?
October 17 at 2:10am · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad yep
October 17 at 2:10am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen so, pick and object in your room (not the screen)

LOOK AT IT...

1) is there a seer looking at the object?
2) is there just the seeing?
October 17 at 2:13am · Like
Nikola KindRad both, depending how I look, attention goes back and forth
October 17 at 2:19am · Like
Nikola KindRad between what I see and what I think about, what I feel about it, how I feel myself.... attention wonders, most of the time it's outside of my self, sometimes it's on myself...
October 17 at 2:21am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen LOOK AGAIN...

1) is there a seer looking at the object?
2) is there a seamless flow of sensations... a flow of Experience... and that Experience is divided in to "seer" + "seen"?

could it be that some sensations are labelled "seer" or "self", and others are labelled "what is seen" "object"?
October 17 at 2:21am · Like
Nikola KindRad yes, pretty much
October 17 at 2:22am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen check to be sure... #1 or #2?
October 17 at 2:23am · Like
Nikola KindRad if one could call seer this process of experiencing, with my face and unique DNA on it...
October 17 at 2:25am · Like
Nikola KindRad I guess I'm just trying to grasp what am I really...
October 17 at 2:26am · Unlike · 1
Neil Jalaldeen unless you have a webcam open or a mirror near you... there is no 'my face' in direct experience, and unless you have a chemistry set in front of you... there is no DNA as well... stick to direct Experience.... will, thoughts, sensations, presence.
October 17 at 2:26am · Like · 1
Neil Jalaldeen cool... want to continue?
October 17 at 2:27am · Like
Nikola KindRad cool
October 17 at 2:28am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen is there a YOU in Direct Experience? in this moment to moment stream of Life?
October 17 at 2:29am · Like
Nikola KindRad feels like there is
October 17 at 2:33am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen explain from direct experience what this feeling is.

what happens when you drop the thought "feels like there is"... is there a YOU then?

is it possible that this is just part of the experiencing... and that this experience isn't happening to anyone or anything? is it possible that experiencing is all there is?
October 17 at 2:35am · Like
Nikola KindRad all there is for who?
October 17 at 2:36am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen please answer all the questions... and answer your own question after done with my questions please :)
October 17 at 2:38am · Like
Nikola KindRad feeling is like experience, thoughts are experience, awareness is experience, only will is not experience
October 17 at 2:40am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen I see... how is will separate from Experience? if it is not Experienced then how do you speak about it?
October 17 at 2:42am · Like
Nikola KindRad it's like the conduit of experience... you can only describe it in terms of Experience - thoughts, sensations, perceptions, but it is neither.
October 17 at 2:50am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen so... is there an Experience-er that experiences Experience, or is that also just an Experience. LOOK.

is there a FEELER of feelings... CHECK.

is there a THINKER of thoughts... CHECK.
October 17 at 2:52am · Like
Nikola KindRad Well, I see it like a fish swimming in the ocean - we are swimming in the ocean of experience, otherwise, we stop being who we are - humans, not monkeys, not ants or bees, not aliens either ;)
October 17 at 2:56am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen now you are trying to have a philosophical discussion with me ... this is for direct and simple seeing that there is no You.

there are thoughts, there are sensations, there is a sense of aliveness, there is some other sensations that you may label as will, but can you see that there is noone there that this phenomenon arises to? can you see that there is only this dancing display of phenomena? this is simple and direct and always present. usually what happens is we overlook this simplicity, and get lost in thoughts.
October 17 at 2:59am · Like · 1
Neil Jalaldeen Also Nikola, for this process to be effective, I ask questions, which point to your simple and direct moment to moment experience, and you LOOK, SEE & CHECK, and then report back with respect to that simple already present SEEing.

This isn't about philosophical discussion, or speculation. For this process to be effective, you gotta honor our agreement made in the beggining of this post, and you gotta do the Work... which is Simple SEEing, and Simple LOOKing.
October 17 at 3:05am · Like · 1
Neil Jalaldeen Sleep time for me, consider the questions, but not with thinking. check and verify from what is simple here and now. Take your time. And get back to me when you feel like you have honestly and clearly investigated this. Look forward to working w you further.
October 17 at 3:12am via mobile · Like
Nikola KindRad who are you asking these questions? if there is no me, you must be dreaming all this?
October 17 at 3:12am · Like
Nikola KindRad or will be dreaming ;) g-nite to both of us! even though we don't exist
October 17 at 3:13am · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad I got it, can confirm that in Direct Experience there is only Direct Experiencing. So it looks like we have 2 kinds of experience - Direct and Indirect?
October 17 at 4:37pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen there is an Experiencing, and THOUGHTS about it, which is also Experience. There is ONLY Experience.

isn't 'indirect' experience just a thought-story?
October 17 at 4:41pm · Edited · Like · 1
Neil Jalaldeen How's it going Nikola?
October 18 at 2:19pm · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad yes, I see it now
October 18 at 4:40pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen what do you see?

and who is seeing it? :)
October 18 at 4:42pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen tell me where you are at with this investigation.

is there a separate self?
October 18 at 4:51pm · Like
Nikola KindRad I don't know anymore ;)
October 18 at 5:20pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen do you still want to continue this investigation?
October 18 at 5:30pm · Like
Nikola KindRad yes. I can't find any separate self, but I'm confused by the appearences of 'other people', aren't they other selves?
October 18 at 5:44pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen there are appearances that appear to appear, and they can be creatively conceptualized in any way, and are usually conceptualized in a habitual manner.

are you clear that there is no You, whatsoever?

was there ever a separate self?
October 18 at 5:47pm · Like
Nikola KindRad Experientially I can only say that there is no self. But is there a way to phrase this in a positive, affirming way? Saying that there is no self doesn't explain the experience someone/something is having... or if we leave the self aside, how would one explain the Experience?
October 18 at 5:52pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Nikola, there can be infinite ways to explain what is experienced... yet they are just explanations.

what is clear is that you still believe that someone/something is 'having' the experience.

Are you here for explanations about the 'universe', or to see through the illusion? :)
October 18 at 5:57pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen your profile says you are in search for the meaning of life, okay, if that is the case... should you not test out the most basic and unchecked assumption first... that there is a You that is living life and trying to find meaning?

That is simply what this group is for, and what LU is about. Afterwards, there are aftercare groups to address (I don't know about answering) all these questions and concerns, but for now, it's my simple job to help you see through the illusion. That's all.
October 18 at 6:01pm · Like
Nikola KindRad yes, the self does not exist, affirmative, kind of scary though, all these years believing in it!
October 18 at 6:10pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen let's tackle this more:

close eyes, feel sensations. is there a feeler of these feelings/sensations?
October 18 at 6:12pm · Like
Nikola KindRad I keep wanting to say - I am the feeler! But in reality, there's just sensations.
October 18 at 6:16pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen there are thoughts that pop up and say "I am the feeler", and sensations... is it clear from Experience, that there is just the feeling?

again...

close eyes... watch thoughts come and go... is there a thinker of thoughts? or is there just another thought that claims there is? a silly self referencing loop? which is more Truer?
October 18 at 6:18pm · Like
Nikola KindRad No, I can't find the thinker
October 18 at 6:29pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen yeah... thoughts appear, sensations are felt, there is a sense of being. thoughts label experience, and for the most part, it centers around this "I" thought that clings to every experience and claims it. It's just a thought, including the thought "who is thinking?" and "I am thinking".

again...

get up and just walk around slowly... are you making the walking happen? or is walking just happening including thoughts about "I am walking because the signal in my brain is blah blah blah blah..." :) Which is more Truer?

move your hand up and down... is there a controller of this? or is it just happening effortlessly? which is more Truer?

pick an object again. LOOK at it. Are you looking at it? Or is there a seamless experience, a perception, that needs no separate looker?

^ respond to each please.
October 18 at 6:35pm · Like
Nikola KindRad I'll get back to you on these a bit later, have to take care of a few things. thank you.
October 18 at 6:56pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen take your time and respond when you have a chance to experiment and play with those pointers. look forward to the conversation. later.
October 18 at 6:57pm · Like
Nikola KindRad yes, movement is a reflex, like thought...
October 21 at 3:02am · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad I don't find a controller
October 21 at 3:02am · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad there is only looking
October 21 at 3:03am · Unlike · 1
Neil Jalaldeen is there a separate self, anywhere, in any form?
October 21 at 3:04am · Like
Nikola KindRad no, no self
October 21 at 3:50am · Unlike · 1
Neil Jalaldeen Have you seen through the illusion of the separate self?
October 21 at 8:33am via mobile · Like
Nikola KindRad it's clear that there is no self, but what can I do with this? or where does the road goes, so to say?
October 21 at 10:06pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen well... let's tackle this first. and confirm you have indeed Awakened from the illusion, and not that it's just an intellectual confirmation.

so. if you have seen through the illusion.

tell me clearly what it was like:
- before seeing this
- at the time of seeing (or was it a gradual thing)
- after seeing (basically what is different now, and in what way)

let's take it form there.
October 21 at 10:28pm · Like
Nikola KindRad -before seeing through there was only experience
October 22 at 5:39pm · Like
Nikola KindRad -at the time of seeing there was only epxerience
October 22 at 5:39pm · Like
Nikola KindRad -after there is only experience
October 22 at 5:40pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen is there anyone or anything, right here, right now, that all of this experience is arising to? or from?
October 22 at 5:41pm · Like
Nikola KindRad yet the habit of putting labels is very strong and I find I keep going back and forth between direct seeing and reacting to manifestations
October 22 at 5:41pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen regardless of thoughts arising with labels,
regardless of "direct seeing"
regardless of "reacting to manifestations"
is there ever any separation? ever any separate self? check plz.
October 22 at 5:43pm · Like
Nikola KindRad I dont' see any separation
October 22 at 5:59pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen are there any doubts Nikola?
October 22 at 6:00pm · Like
Nikola KindRad when I remember that self is an illusion I see no self, but when I don't, it all comes back. well. this realization is not permanent, or maybe it's like focus, it works when we focus,... what is the bigger picture of this exercise?
October 22 at 8:37pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen - so when "it all comes back", then is there a self?
- what would it be like for this to be permanent? are you holding on to some image or expectation of what it might be?
October 22 at 8:44pm · Like
Nikola KindRad when it all comes back I don't remember that there is no self
October 22 at 9:35pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen even when you don't remember "there is no self", is there a self?

and when you say "well. this realization is not permanent, or maybe it's like focus, it works when we focus,... "... who/what is focusing?
October 22 at 9:36pm · Like
Nikola KindRad when I don't remember - I don't remember :)
October 22 at 9:44pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen plz answer the questions directly Nikola :)
October 22 at 9:49pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen the question brings you to the present moment, and takes you out of thought-speculations.
October 22 at 9:51pm · Like
Nikola KindRad you're asking me how would I feel in the past, but I don't exist in the past, I exist only now... now, if I'm really now, there is no self...
October 22 at 10:04pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen I never asked you about a feeling in the past. I am asking, regardless of what you remember or not, is there a self, here and now? was there ever a self?

Where is this "I" that exists now?
October 22 at 10:07pm · Like
Nikola KindRad I don't know who/what is focusing, but same applies to what are we doing here! if there is an illusion about self, there must be a way to describe it, it must have time and space... if we're talking about Direct Experience we can't talk about past
October 22 at 10:09pm · Like
Nikola KindRad that was to the previous line
October 22 at 10:10pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Okay, answer the last questions I posed and then we can get this moving.
October 22 at 10:23pm · Like
Nikola KindRad there is no 'I' to be found
October 22 at 10:24pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen okay.

so tell me where you are at with this then?
October 22 at 10:39pm · Like
Nikola KindRad can you be more specific?
October 22 at 10:40pm · Edited · Like
Neil Jalaldeen well, we are here to see through the illusion. I want to know where you are at with this. All good? See that there is no separation anywhere, ever, and can never be?
October 22 at 10:40pm · Like
Nikola KindRad an illusion is either permanent, and can't be removed. Or temporary/conditional, and can be removed if condition causing is removed to. Can you tell me what is the cause of the Illusion of Self?
October 22 at 11:10pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen an illusion is simply something that appears to be there, but upon investigation, it isn't. an illusion may seem real when believed, but when completely and utterly investigated, it is seen as just an illusion, and no more believed. Kids believe in Santa Claus, and they grow up and they realize the Truth. Seekers believe in a seeker, and then they grow up realize the Truth.

again... am doing my best here to guide and follow this process with you, yet I don't know if that is what you are doing as well.

What is the hangup for you here?
October 22 at 11:15pm · Like
Nikola KindRad so, this process of Investigation, what is it?
October 22 at 11:18pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen it is a process of investigating that assumption, that believed, habitually asserted, and centrally held assumption.
October 22 at 11:20pm · Like
Nikola KindRad but who is doing it if there is no self? are we just playing with our mind?
October 22 at 11:22pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen look Nikola, this isn't a conversation... as I've said, there are many places to discuss this kind of philosophy/stuff. It's clear that you still believe there is someone or something doing it. You haven't seen this clearly yet. You are going back in to intellectualizing this no?
October 22 at 11:24pm · Like
Nikola KindRad I am also trying to investigate this illusion, am I not allowed to ask questions at all?
October 22 at 11:31pm · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad I see that there is no self in direct experience, but I can't fix that perception, it comes and goes. But you keep requesting the confirmation of the first fact, but not the latter one. So how can we agree that we understand each other?
October 22 at 11:38pm · Like
Nikola KindRad Am I suppose to Permanently Enlighten and forever remain in that State? If so, I'd like to see people that are in that state to confirm that if I anything becomes Permanent that it is a good decision.
October 22 at 11:45pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen No... you are allowed to, but it is not really about an intellectual discussion though. That is what I am trying to point out. It is about taking this investigation deep & viscerally until all doubts about a separate self are vanquished.

Yes... the perception of there being a self remains even after Awakening from the illusion. Regardless though, even if there is a perception of a 'self', it is understood that there is only ever a perception, never a separate self, never a separate experiencer, never a controller/doer. This 'sense of self' is necessary to navigate the world and relate to people, situations, etc. It's just a function. We are not trying to get rid of that at all.

No, in reference to the state, states come and go. They are all impermanent. This isn't about any state. It is about destroying the core illusion that there is someone there that remains in a state, that there is a separate self that experiences those states.

Is there any other clarification you require?
October 23 at 12:19am · Like
Nikola KindRad OK. I understand the question, I do not find any self, only experience. From the beginning of my life, or memory, there was only experience, and till the end of my life, there will only be experience. because life is generated real time. ;) would you suggest any practice to improve this ability?
October 23 at 12:36am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Well, my main goal is to guide you through this till there is no doubt. Then we ask you the final questions. Then there is a peer review process where other guides review and cnfirm your Awakening.

There is a Buddhist sutra I can give you, and perhaps you can contemplate that for the next day, and then get back to me before we proceed?
October 23 at 12:44am via mobile · Like
Nikola KindRad I like Buddhist sutras. I'd like to hear it.
October 23 at 12:48am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.” (ud. 1.10)
- Buddha.

~~

Basically Nikola, apply this to Experiencing, moment to moment, here and now:

In seeing, there is only the seen.
In hearing, there is only the heard.
In feeling, there is only the felt.
In tasting, there is only the tasted.
In smelling, there is only the smelled.
In thinking, there is only thought.

In essence, in this appearance, there is only the appearance,
In essence, in this experience, there is only the experience, including the experience of an experience-er, which is also experience, thus, there is only this Experiencing.

(the second part is my version... lol).

~~

Take a day with this. Don't just intellectualize this. Rigorously test this out in every moment.

Get back to me tomorrow and we can proceed further.
October 23 at 1:05am · Like · 2
Nikola KindRad ok
October 23 at 2:01am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Hey Nikola, how's it going?
October 24 at 10:55pm · Like · 2
Nikola KindRad I was observing reality from this new perspective and I find that I am mostly living in a world of 'images or reflections' and not in the direct experience without self. I understand that there is no self in my experience, yet I don't know what I can do to be more connected with it.
October 26 at 5:03pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Great.

So Who or What is observing that this reality or perspective?

Regardless of understanding or not, is it clear that there never is a self?

What is trying to connect with what? What is ever separate from anything else that needs connecting?

Is there a disconnection? And if so where/how?

Again... Direct investigation, here and now, and get back to me when you have thoroughly tested these angles of inquiry. If you have any questions for me, ask them ONLY after you have answered my questions. That way the focus is kept on any lingering assumptions or doubts.

Look forward to this.
October 26 at 5:34pm via mobile · Like · 1
Neil Jalaldeen How goes it?
October 28 at 11:06am · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad there is no separate self... images happen, but there is nobody who's making them happen.
October 28 at 7:47pm · Like
Neil Jalaldeen cool. could you answer those questions posed in my previous post.

and then tell me where you are, or if you have any questions.
but again, my main priority is to trigger this direct seeing in you. the shift may be subtle, but it is unmistakable in most circumstances.
October 28 at 11:30pm · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad Reality is observing itself.
There is never a self in this Observation.
One thought is trying to connect with another thought, but I see that the experience is unbroken.
There is no disconnection... maybe it's just that thoughts can't live in the present, they disappear...
October 31 at 2:24am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Nikola,

yes...
in 'this',
this Appearance, this Experience, this Reality... there is just 'this'.

in 'this' arises thoughts, sensations, a sense of self, people, planets, computer screens, ideas, Nikola, Neil, emotions, theories, words, flowers, objects, whatever...
no matter what arises in 'this', there is noone or no-thing that it arises to.
none of it is ever personal, as there is never a claimant.
if there is an appearance of a person or self, it can be seen that it is just another appearance,
there is never anyone doing the seeing though... just the seen, just the appearance,
if there are thoughts, or streams of thoughts, it is clear that they are thoughts, and they are not YOUr thoughts, because there is no such thing, and you are NOT the thinker of thoughts... those thoughts are just thoughts.

there is never any disconnection, or separation,

'this' is complete.
'this' is free.
'this' is liberated.

---

are there any more doubts?
is there anything else we should investigate further in light of this seeing through the illusion of a separate self/i/me?

with Love.
October 31 at 2:45am · Like · 2
Nikola KindRad a ton of doubts, and some more, but so what?! A doubt doubting in it's own projections, this isn't going anywhere, or going in circles. "THIS" is what I would like to investigate.
October 31 at 11:20pm · Unlike · 1
Neil Jalaldeen right, there can be several thoughts, yet, you are not the thinker of thoughts. thoughts arise in and as Experience, yet we check to see if it arises to anyone or anything?

and yes, thoughts are self-referencing. they usually refer to the center/i/me/self, yet when investigated, there is never a center/i/me/self, just an Experience, just an Arising.

'this' just is. "investigation of 'this'" arises in 'this'.
there is never an investigator that is apart from 'this'.
anything that arises, arises in and of 'this'.
Experience is complete.
if there is an experience of a self, of a Nikola, that is fine... yet it is clear, that there is no such thing, just an appearance.

what would you like to investigate?
is it clear that there is no separate self/experiencer/doer?
October 31 at 11:26pm · Like
Nikola KindRad there is nothing to investigate, this is it! It is clear - self does not exist.
November 1 at 12:00am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Yeah, so...
thoughts may arise that are labelled doubts, yet, is there any doubt that there is no separate self, no separate doer, no entity called Nikola, no I/me/You?

Is it clear that all of those are just labels that divide Experience?
November 1 at 12:03am · Like
Nikola KindRad when I look at a thought, it disapears. When I look at myself all I find is just experience, whether I am aware of it or not, there is always only experience, happening, changes, movements, images... millions of things going on, but who am I? Just this.
November 1 at 12:08am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Yes... even the thought "I am 'this'" is still a thought and must be seen as such. 'this' does not need a thought to claim it, and thought cannot claim anything because it's just a thought, and you are not the thinker of thoughts.

Also.. is it clear, that when looking at thoughts, there is no looker?

Also... is it clear, that when going through this process, there is noone that goes through the process, just 'this' and thoughts about it? :)

If you have seen through the illusion of the separate self, and have no more doubts, we can proceed to the final questions. However, if there is more that you would like to investigate in relation to the separate self, then we can do that.
November 1 at 12:11am · Like · 1
Nikola KindRad when looking at thought there is nobody who's looking at them, when I try to find who is looking at thoughts I find nobody. There is just looking and thoughts.
Same with going through this process - no 'self' or 'I' is going through it. It is clear.
November 1 at 12:51am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen alright my friend, are you ready for the final questions?
November 1 at 12:52am · Like
Nikola KindRad yes
November 1 at 12:53am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen Please answer in detail, each question, honestly and earnestly, and refer to direct experience. If the questions requires analysis and speculation, start with direct experience, here and now first, then let thoughts flow. Take your time, there is no rush, and noone doing any of it :)

1) Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Will there ever be?

1.5) When you say "Nikola KindRad", what in Experience are you referring to?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it FEEL to see this? describe in detail.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

6) describe the difference before seeing, at the moment of seeing, and after seeing? describe the key difference?

7) in what ways has thing changed your life? what impact will this have on your life?

8 ) what if i told you LU was a persuasion cult and we have just got you to believe that "there is no self". How would you respond?

9) do you have any comments about my guiding, what you feel was effective, and what was not so effective, and why?

[ lol... question 1.5 was snuck in there just now :) ]
November 1 at 12:59am · Edited · Like
Nikola KindRad 1. There is no I or me anywhere I can look
November 3 at 2:09am · Like
Nikola KindRad 1.5. not sure what you mean
November 3 at 2:38am · Like
Neil Jalaldeen 1.5) when you say I/me/myself/Nikolai, what are you referring to?
November 3 at 2:39am via mobile · Like
Nikola KindRad funny, you call me Nikolai... :) I, me, Nikola/i/y - they are thoughts based on memories, happening right now.
November 3 at 2:48am · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad more later, good night.
November 3 at 2:49am · Unlike · 1
Neil Jalaldeen Sry Typo;)
November 3 at 3:08am via mobile · Like
Nikola KindRad no, I write it like that some time too
November 3 at 5:10pm · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad 1.5. I, me, Nikola/i/y - they are thoughts based on memories, happening right now.
2. Illusion of separate self is this notion we learned, that we are this "body, mind, awareness" compound and that there is a pilot of this "thing", like a man driving a car, and we call this Pilot "I". But if we were to identify it somehow, we'd fail to do so, as this I is nowhere to find. The I and the Experience are one. We learn that we are separate because our parents and their parents believed in the same thing, we just imitate them.
November 4 at 1:15am · Edited · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad 3. It feels good, somehow a new space appears inside and I can inhale deeper, because I can let go of all my 'problems'. It's not that my problems disapear, but that I'm not one with them anymore and can look at them from aside and find a better ways to work with my life and the experiences that come my way.
Monday at 1:35am · Unlike · 1
Neil Jalaldeen :) looking forward to the rest Nikola :)
Tuesday at 12:23am · Like
Nikola KindRad 4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
"I would take them to a quiet place where they could relax and ask them to close their eyes and observe sounds, then smells, then thoughts, then the source of sound and source of smells and source of thoughts, if they couldn't find it, I would ask them to look for their own source."
Tuesday at 12:47am · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad 5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
"For me it was more like being reminded of something I know or experienced before, and I think I did many times, but not lately, and so it was more like being awakened from a Lucid Dream, I didn't want to 'wake up', just like we do in the morning if we didn't have enough sleep. And then I just stopped "dreaming". For a moment or two, and this comes back to me through out the day. No self means I'm free to be my best, it doesn't mean I'm a jelly fish or amoeba... it means just being who we are, a Mystery."
Tuesday at 1:06am · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad 6) describe the difference before seeing, at the moment of seeing, and after seeing? describe the key difference?
"before seeing it's like I had no freedom from myself. at the moment of seeing it was like I was Infinite and Nowhere. After seeing it I feel more freedom and happiness."
Yesterday at 1:05am · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad 7) in what ways has thing changed your life? what impact will this have on your life?
"being able to see myself and the world in this new way I can use energy I would waste on 'keeping the status quo' of Me alive, and instead use it to Be Alive on a much deeper level."
Yesterday at 1:09am · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad 8 ) what if i told you LU was a persuasion cult and we have just got you to believe that "there is no self". How would you respond?
"That would suck! ;) Especially if I have to pay a lot of mullah to get my Enlightenment Certificate ;D A Certificate given to No Self, Certifying attainment of Nothing .LOL. But I hate cults, so beware."
Yesterday at 1:14am · Unlike · 1
Nikola KindRad 9) do you have any comments about my guiding, what you feel was effective, and what was not so effective, and why?
"You were good in bringing me back to direct experience and not letting me use mind to justify or explain reality, when all one has to do is to experience it. Thank you for your Guidance."
Yesterday at 1:19am · Unlike · 1
Neil Jalaldeen Nikola, thank you for your responses. This will go for review to other guides, and if they have any clarifications/questions, I will post them here. If not, you will be confirmed. There is access to post-gate groups for further play/discussion/chat/inquiry/conditioning.

AND, as always, keep looking in to your Absence :)

keep noticing that in all that happens, that it happens TO noone :)

Be in touch very soon.

<3
Yesterday at 1:24am · Like · 1
Neil Jalaldeen Good to go :) Will send invites to groups once you've added me. Feel free to contact me anytime for discussion. Lots of groups for further inquiry/discussion/chat/play.

Was a pleasure Nikola <3
10 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1

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cosmiK
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:15 pm

Re: Neil (cosmiK) & Nikola K

Postby cosmiK » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:00 pm



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