Help Needed

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:29 pm

Only the self :)

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:17 pm

But to answer the question: no, nothing is missing in this moment.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Help Needed

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:59 am

Hey Jason,

It's John. Good to meet you. :)
Why would you defend the existent Jason's apparent seeking? What does it matter what Jason does?
I don't know why I would defend existent Jason's apparent seeking. I don't know if it matters what Jason does; in direct experience there are only thoughts about what matters.
Why not just face up to the fact that seeking is important to you Jason?

Isn't it?

Kind regards,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:21 am

Hi John,

Good to meet you too.
Why not just face up to the fact that seeking is important to you Jason?

Isn't it?
There are thoughts about seeking (including the thoughts that say "Seeking is important") but I do not control those thoughts. There is a desire to seek, but I don't control that either. Jason is a label/thought for a collection of thoughts, feelings, desires, sensations, etc, but in direct experience - thought & the 5 senses - no self can be detected, and admitting that seeking is important to me would require a me for it to be important to. How can it be important to me if I don't exist?

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Help Needed

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:33 am

Hi Jason,
Hi John,

Good to meet you too.
Why not just face up to the fact that seeking is important to you Jason?

Isn't it?
There are thoughts about seeking (including the thoughts that say "Seeking is important") but I do not control those thoughts. There is a desire to seek, but I don't control that either. Jason is a label/thought for a collection of thoughts, feelings, desires, sensations, etc, but in direct experience - thought & the 5 senses - no self can be detected, and admitting that seeking is important to me would require a me for it to be important to. How can it be important to me if I don't exist?
If Jason had a desire to shop-lift, what would happen then?

After all there's no control over it. Do you just break the law? Not much liberation in prison.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:52 am

If Jason had a desire to shop-lift, what would happen then?

After all there's no control over it. Do you just break the law? Not much liberation in prison.
If there was the desire to shoplift, then thoughts about shoplifting would likely arise. However, thoughts about the consequences - guilt, jail, disappointment from peers - would also likely arise. Then the desire to feel innocent, stay out of jail, and avoid shame would also arise. Depending on what thoughts/feelings/desires were more overpowering, Jason would decide whether or not to shoplift.

Sure, the me/I/self has no control over Jason's actions, but that doesn't mean Jason acts without intelligence.

As far as the lack of liberation in prison... it really depends on what kind of liberation you're talking about. Sure, there would be restrictions on liberty (controlled diet, have to sleep in a jail cell, can't leave the property, etc), but mental/spiritual liberation can happen in any circumstances - under a mango tree or in a prison cell.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Help Needed

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:00 am

Hi Jason,

Given that you are not "Jason", nor the body, nor the thoughts, nor the feelings...

What does "Jason" sense is missing such that "he" is seeking?

Who would "Jason" be without the desire to seek?

What would have to happen for "Jason" to have no need for seeking?

Best wishes,
John

p.s. isn't it fun to liberate a fiction.
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:39 am

What does "Jason" sense is missing such that "he" is seeking?
"Jason" senses that he'd be happier if he seeks.
Who would "Jason" be without the desire to seek?
Well, since "Jason" is defined in part by his desires, if he didn't desire to seek he'd no longer be "Jason". He'd be something very similar to "Jason," but with slightly different desires/thoughts/actions (which, with the butterfly effect, would likely propagate the differences).
What would have to happen for "Jason" to have no need for seeking?
"Jason"'s thoughts or desires would have to change. Either the thought that seeking would attain greater happiness for "Jason" would have to change, or the desire for happiness would have to change.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Help Needed

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:44 am

Hi Jason,
What does "Jason" sense is missing such that "he" is seeking?
"Jason" senses that he'd be happier if he seeks.
That wasn't what was asked. What is missing? Seeking doesn't bring happiness - does it?

Best,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:04 am

What is missing? Seeking doesn't bring happiness - does it?
Freedom is missing. Freedom from the illusion of the self, freedom from the need/desire for control, and freedom to be at peace.

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cosmiK
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Re: Help Needed

Postby cosmiK » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:48 am

Jason,

As per our Skype conversation:

please answer these question honestly from Direct Experience, NOT Hypothetically. Before you respond LOOK DEEPLY, here & now, THEN answer. Take as much time as you need to be clear.

Are you still seeking?
if so, for what?

Is there freedom, and if so why is there freedom, and not bondage?
What is Freedom?

What does "Jason" or "I" or me point to?
LOOK DEEPLY... does it point to an entity named Jason?

Is there anything missing... here & now?

Are there any doubts?

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:31 am

Are you still seeking?
if so, for what?
No, I'm not seeking.
Is there freedom, and if so why is there freedom, and not bondage?
What is Freedom?
There is freedom. Thoughts sensations desires etc all come and go freely. I don't know if I can give a solid answer for what freedom is. Maybe the ability to behave a certain way without censorship or restriction.
What does "Jason" or "I" or me point to?
LOOK DEEPLY... does it point to an entity named Jason?
"Jason" or "I" doesn't point to anything specific. It doesn't point to any entity named "Jason." "Jason"/"I" is just a label/thought that points to a changing glob of sensations, feelings, thoughts, desires, etc.
Is there anything missing... here & now?
No, nothing is missing here & now.
Are there any doubts?
Nope, no doubts.

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cosmiK
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Re: Help Needed

Postby cosmiK » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:18 pm

Jason,

you are confirmed and good to go. I will send you invites to our post-gate Facebook groups.

with Love.

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:41 pm

Thanks for all of the help (You too John!)

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:35 am

Is there somewhere else I should go to on LU? A through-the-gate section?


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