vapourising gates

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Deirdra
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vapourising gates

Postby Deirdra » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:39 pm

Hello Dear People!
I think I may be swinging on the gate.
I would love more than anything to be catapulted over it, and then turn around to see it vapourise.
Would anyone like to pull the catapult and be my guide?!!
Thank you and Much love,
D

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Eloratea
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Eloratea » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:05 am

Hi D,

let's start with your expectations from this. How do you want or don't want this crossing "gate" to be?

And if you hear that there is no you, that your life story isn't more real than any movie- or book-story, how does it feel; what comes up?

Warm regards.

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Deirdra
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Deirdra » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:33 pm

Thank you.
I can't think of how I want or don't want it to be. Only that I want it to be.
It is already the truth so I simply want to see it and live it in a stable way.

Hearing there is no me makes sense on many levels. That my life story is no more real than a movie feels far away now sitting here typing because I feel very viscerally the physical world right now.
At other times I have experienced my life as a movie as I walk around and live my daily life. And when I experience this I feel very light and happy and free.
It seems to come and go - although I know that it doesn't ever go. But it appears to move from an intellectual understanding to a visceral knowing and back again.

However it happens or whatever appears to be as a consequence of the happening, I want to live the truth fully every day, every moment. I have known this for some time.

Thank you for response! I am very happy to hear from you.

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Eloratea
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Eloratea » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:23 pm

It is already the truth so I simply want to see it and live it in a stable way.
Good, that is reasonable.
Hearing there is no me makes sense on many levels. That my life story is no more real than a movie feels far away now sitting here typing because I feel very viscerally the physical world right now.
Is there really you typing, or it is just usual conceptualization of the experience?
Look what are the facts of your current experience, without assumptions?
Where is you in direct experience?
There are thoughts, sensations, awareness of everything, but you?
Look around. Is there you looking, or it is just clear, pure looking?
At other times I have experienced my life as a movie as I walk around and live my daily life. And when I experience this I feel very light and happy and free.
What if life lives and thoughts „I“ and „my“ arise in experience just labeling it? Thought pattern that was learned and conditioned to be believed?
It seems to come and go - although I know that it doesn't ever go. But it appears to move from an intellectual understanding to a visceral knowing and back again.
Everything in experience comes and goes. But is there ever experiencer separate from experience?
Is there story about you outside of thoughts?

With Love.

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Deirdra
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Deirdra » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:32 pm

Thank you. I am printing this off so I can spend time with your responses over the coming few days as I travel.

My questions at this moment are:
~ 1.What is stopping me from seeing clearly now? (I mean, why the lunacy of all this stopping and filtering?!)
~ 2.How can I stop the stopping?

Thank you and with love,
D

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Eloratea
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Eloratea » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:28 pm

Hey Deirdra,

there is an important rule in this, you get questions and answer them honestly, without much thinking, with own words upon looking into your own experience.

Also, there needs to be some regularity with posting about it.

Let's try that way. Than you might find your answers answered, or fall away.

Warm regards!

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Deirdra
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Deirdra » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:08 pm

Ok, good.

"Is there really you typing, or it is just usual conceptualization of the experience?
Where is you in direct experience?
There are thoughts, sensations, awareness of everything, but you?
Look around. Is there you looking, or it is just clear, pure looking?"
>Most of the time it feels like it is me typing - but when I take a moment and put myself in that "space" of observing the experience - I experience it as more of a conceptualisation. It is a strange thing because it feels like I can click in and out of it - but who is clicking who in and out?!
As I read your words, the experience becomes less personal - less identification. So it seems for now the reminder helps me to remember.
Honestly, most of the time though I would be rooted in the person typing - especially with a fairly left-brain activity like this - it requires focus and zoning in and I think I tend to do these sort of tasks from a person place.
Walking, singing, dancing - other activities like these seem to create a more natural space to experience the bigger self.
I have times of pure looking - just awareness being awareness - but it comes and goes in phases. Maybe when I meditate for periods of time, there is a clearer, bigger view than when I get magnetised into this matrix-type experience - i.e. plugged into conditioning.

"What if life lives and thoughts „I“ and „my“ arise in experience just labeling it? Thought pattern that was learned and conditioned to be believed?"
>I get this at an intellectual level - and at times at a visceral level. Recently I have been noticing a fear of letting go into this. Sometimes I feel like I am at a vantage point that is just on the cusp of the gate (or whatever we want to call it) - I can feel it and glimpse it but then it feels like I'm not sure how to see right through - it somehow feels complicated - and I'm beginning to think that this might be a fear of letting go masking itself as a feeling of foggy complexity - it is a feeling. So to answer your question - I think despite my desire (which can feel like a vocational feeling) to see the truth - there is something there that I can't see yet.

"Everything in experience comes and goes. But is there ever experiencer separate from experience?
Is there story about you outside of thoughts?"
>I guess what confuses me about this bit is memory - it's the "experiencer" who is experiencing right now AND ALSO remembering her history of experience. No, there is no story of me outside of thoughts (my own and others thoughts about me) - apart from in material things - like photos, things I've written, videos etc.
I almost feel like I want to apologise! It's silly but I feel quite identified with me as a person these days - and yet I feel a little in limbo because I remember very clearly the other way of experiencing also.

Thank you for your time and patience!

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Eloratea
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Eloratea » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:34 am

Most of the time it feels like it is me typing - but when I take a moment and put myself in that "space" of observing the experience - I experience it as more of a conceptualisation. It is a strange thing because it feels like I can click in and out of it - but who is clicking who in and out?!
What if just thought „me“ comes in and out of awareness? What it is just thought no real entity behind? Only awareness of experience with all sensations and thoughts.
Walking, singing, dancing - other activities like these seem to create a more natural space to experience the bigger self.
Good, just notice that bigger self is also only a label. And assumption that there needs to someone here, some controlling entity.
Just look into direct experience and its facts.
I have times of pure looking - just awareness being awareness - but it comes and goes in phases. Maybe when I meditate for periods of time, there is a clearer, bigger view than when I get magnetised into this matrix-type experience - i.e. plugged into conditioning.
Keep looking. Once you see there is no entity, nothing inside the onion, the layers of conditioning fall away more easily.
"What if life lives and thoughts „I“ and „my“ arise in experience just labeling it? Thought pattern that was learned and conditioned to be believed?"
I get this at an intellectual level - and at times at a visceral level. Recently I have been noticing a fear of letting go into this. Sometimes I feel like I am at a vantage point that is just on the cusp of the gate (or whatever we want to call it) - I can feel it and glimpse it but then it feels like I'm not sure how to see right through - it somehow feels complicated - and I'm beginning to think that this might be a fear of letting go masking itself as a feeling of foggy complexity - it is a feeling. So to answer your question - I think despite my desire (which can feel like a vocational feeling) to see the truth - there is something there that I can't see yet.
Good, just protecting mechanism. And you need here some courage and honesty to proceed, to se what is there to be protected. Is there anything real, or just illusion.
"Everything in experience comes and goes. But is there ever experiencer separate from experience?
Is there story about you outside of thoughts?"
I guess what confuses me about this bit is memory - it's the "experiencer" who is experiencing right now AND ALSO remembering her history of experience. No, there is no story of me outside of thoughts (my own and others thoughts about me) - apart from in material things - like photos, things I've written, videos etc.
I almost feel like I want to apologise! It's silly but I feel quite identified with me as a person these days - and yet I feel a little in limbo because I remember very clearly the other way of experiencing also.
All those memories are thoughts appearing in now, in this actual experience. As all the objects. And it is all part of the story. There is no continuity yet in the story. It is just illusion created by the mind. Like with tv pictures in motion. You have probably noticed how your memory about same event varies depending on actual mood and circumstances. Also different actors in event have different memory. There is no much difference between personal story and dream, or movie, or book story.
Characters are equaly imagined.
Here, right now is all that exist, including all the perception and thoughts that it is made of.
And „I“ is one of them.
Identification happens based on belief in „I“. See it for what it is, like Santa, and belief is gone. So is with identifications.

Keep looking in actual experience. Is there a controller/manager of it?

Warm regards and best wishes!

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Deirdra
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Deirdra » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:48 pm

Hello,
Thank you.
I have been in Berlin and London since I last wrote, hence the delay.
For now, I need a little space to think - I'm not finding my way through all of this at the moment.
Again, thanks.
Deirdre

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Eloratea
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Eloratea » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:55 pm

Ok, hope you have a nice time, anyway.
See you if you come back.

Warm regards and best wishes.

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Deirdra
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Deirdra » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:37 am

Hi again,

I'm still not finding may way through this but found my way back here.
I have lost my clarity and even my motivation to be clear.
I am scared of the suffering this is bringing and will bring.
Thinking my way through this or doing this from a wordy/head place doesn't seem to make sense to me.
I'm wondering what to do.
For the past good while I have been feeling A LOT of anger, jealousy, hatred...dark stuff. I am semi-conscious about it but not enough to get proper perspective.
If you have something to say to this, please do.
Thanks,
D

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Eloratea
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Eloratea » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:12 am

Hi Deirdre,
I am not working here for some time, but if you feel really ready NOW, we can continue.
We can look again if there is anything real, substantial behind that thought "me"?

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Deirdra
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Deirdra » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:57 am

Hi again and thank you.

"Me" feels very strong these days.
Can you remind me of the process that dissolves the me?
My physical body and personality seem very real now - so the idea that "me" isn't real is understood but only at a conceptual level at this moment.

Can you guide me along the next step?
This would be great.

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Eloratea
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Re: vapourising gates

Postby Eloratea » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:43 am

Please look whenever thought "I" arises how it happens is there anything substantial related to it, anything permanent?

And this sense of "me" people often talk as a proof of separate self, isn't that just life energy being concentrated lead by thought "me"?

What is important to know is that whatever thoughts and feeling arise however they may be labeled, they all have in common one thing - there is zero self in them or behind them!
Now let's start from your direct experiencing moment from moment and looking into it. What is really there, and what is not there.
And write about your findings.

Best wishes!


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