Is it possible to see this?

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xyzzy
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby xyzzy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:15 pm

You are not looking, not observing at all.
Your answers come from concept, beliefs and thinking. That's why you sense yourself to be located in the head. But it is just brain working.
Liberation begins with observing.
When I look, I don't find myself within my experience. I also don't exist in the physical world, which is to say that I don't take up any space and I'm not visible. So if I don't exist in the physical world or in my experience, then how can I exist at all?

I could be in my mind, I could be a belief, but a belief is not alive or important or any such thing. I can't be a belief and still be me. So, I can't find myself anywhere. I must exist somewhere, though.

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Eloratea
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby Eloratea » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:57 pm

What if there is confusion between what really is - this awareness, this experience, aliveness - and thoughts arising in connection with body making this personal?

Take some time for still observation.

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xyzzy
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby xyzzy » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:26 am

What if there is confusion between what really is - this awareness, this experience, aliveness - and thoughts arising in connection with body making this personal?

Take some time for still observation.
Maybe it's possible that I am just a belief, and that therefore I am not important or in need of protection. That would mean that I am not life, but that life is here whether I am or not. I can't find myself anywhere, so maybe I am just a belief.

But I don't know that to be true. I don't know how to know the truth.

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Eloratea
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby Eloratea » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:49 am

Hi Edward,
Maybe it's possible that I am just a belief, and that therefore I am not important or in need of protection. That would mean that I am not life, but that life is here whether I am or not. I can't find myself anywhere, so maybe I am just a belief.
No thought could ever find itself anywhere.
And this what is, this awareness, never looks for itself. It is never lost.
Thoughts have beginning an end. They are learned with language, they come as software for this body-machine; as they come into the experience at some point they can’t be what “you” really are.
So, thoughts don’t need protection; they are neither important nor unimportant, but they can modify greatly the actual experiencing.
But I don't know that to be true. I don't know how to know the truth.
You can never know the truth in intellectual sense as it is not a concept; it is not of the same nature as thought.

Only honest questioning can bring you to the final frontier of the mind, to the gateless gate and than it can be revealed only in silent observation.
Truth, awareness, life... - it is all there is. Some call it our real nature.

Look for that that which is and which was there before you learned the word "I", before your body got name and all sorts of identifications began leading to inevitable confusion.
That is important. It doesn't need protection, just honesty to be recognized/liberated in your actual experience.

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xyzzy
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby xyzzy » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:52 pm

Look for that that which is and which was there before you learned the word "I", before your body got name and all sorts of identifications began leading to inevitable confusion.
That is important. It doesn't need protection, just honesty to be recognized/liberated in your actual experience.
Experience is here, and doesn't need protection.

I'm not sure how that helps me see whether or not there is a me, though.

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Eloratea
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby Eloratea » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:21 pm

Spend some time sitting doing nothing but observing thoughts, feelings, sensations as they happen.
Just be with the experience without special expectations and report how it went; what was going on.

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xyzzy
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby xyzzy » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:49 am

Spend some time sitting doing nothing but observing thoughts, feelings, sensations as they happen.
Just be with the experience without special expectations and report how it went; what was going on.
I feel physical sensations and there's a feeling of being, and then before too long my mind gets distracted and starts thinking about something and I forget that I'm observing what's going on, and then eventually I remember again, and it's back to the physical sensations and the feeling of being. This repeats over and over.

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Eloratea
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby Eloratea » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:30 am

Ok. When you do it again pay attention on that what is observing; on the space, silence in which all that is happening.

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xyzzy
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby xyzzy » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:27 am

Ok. When you do it again pay attention on that what is observing; on the space, silence in which all that is happening.
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying. There's a feeling of being which might be what you're talking about, I can't explain any better than that what it is. If I pay attention to it then I'm aware of it, whereas usually I'm not. Nothing happens, though.

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Eloratea
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby Eloratea » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:40 am

Yes, I wanted you to pay attention on that being-ness, awareness. Stay with it for a while. Nothing needs to happen.
Are "you" aware of it, or thoughts about "you" appear in it?
What are you in this experience?

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xyzzy
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby xyzzy » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:44 pm

Yes, I wanted you to pay attention on that being-ness, awareness. Stay with it for a while. Nothing needs to happen.
Are "you" aware of it, or thoughts about "you" appear in it?
What are you in this experience?
There isn't the experience of me being aware of it, there is just the experience of being. But, thoughts do not appear in it. Thoughts and the feeling of being are both there, one isn't inside the other.

I don't seem to be anything in this experience, I seem to be just a belief, as there is no me anywhere to be found, and there is a belief in me which there doesn't seem to be any evidence for. But, I don't know for sure.

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Eloratea
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby Eloratea » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:33 pm

But, thoughts do not appear in it. Thoughts and the feeling of being are both there, one isn't inside the other.
Ok. Can the thoughts and feelings exist without awareness?
I don't seem to be anything in this experience, I seem to be just a belief, as there is no me anywhere to be found, and there is a belief in me which there doesn't seem to be any evidence for. But, I don't know for sure.
You are still approaching this intellectually.
Where this belief comes from? Is it based on something?

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xyzzy
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby xyzzy » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:38 am

Ok. Can the thoughts and feelings exist without awareness?
Awareness is part of all experience, I suppose, so no.
You are still approaching this intellectually.
Where this belief comes from? Is it based on something?
I feel that I am here, or rather, I know that I am here. That's all that the belief in me is based on.

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Eloratea
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby Eloratea » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:59 am

I know that I am here
Is this more than a thought in awareness?

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vinceschubert
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Re: Is it possible to see this?

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:49 am

If you only know that you were dreaming, after you wake up. How do you know that you aren't dreaming this ? (albeit a "realistic' dream. - you've probably had them before.)
...back to you El


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