Re: Is it possible to see this?
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:22 pm
I'm not sure that I was saying I make decisions or believe things. It would be awkward to try to talk without using the words I or me, so I'm using those words. I'll answer the questions you asked, but I don't feel like I understand what you're saying overall.Please answer them after reading my post again. I asked the questions because you said a lot of things that CONTRADICTED your statement not being the thinker of thoughts.
For example you said that you make decisions, and you believe things - AFTER saying that you are not the thinker of thoughts or believer of beliefs. So, yes, please just read my post carefully and answer all of the questions as best you can.
They're the beliefs that are being experienced here. They're still here regardless of whether or not there is an I. I can't control them.Whose beliefs??I'm not sure how it would be possible to function without it, as actions are based to a great extent on beliefs.
There are thoughts, and beliefs but you've just said, at the start of this post, that you are not the thinker of thoughts or believer of beliefs.
When you said that you were stating it FROM DIRECT EXPERIENTIAL EVIDENCE.
So when you said that, you were speaking about REALITY as DIRECTLY as you could ever hope to be able to assess it!!
So whose beliefs?
yes, there are thoughts showing up, and there are beliefs showing up, and there is doing showing up, but has there ever been an "I" involved in any of it - EXCEPT as an idea generated by THOUGHT?
No, but I seem to be the experiencer of those things. I don't know whether or not that is actually true.No it would not. You would have to be a thinker of thoughts to make a decision to live a certain way. Whatever thoughts pop up will pop up a they always have. They will continue to speak about an "I" that needs to do things, and doing will continue to be done.It would require the decision to live based on the idea that thoughts were not true.
Are you the thinker of those thoughts, or the decider of decisions, or the doer of that doing?
There seems to be an I, but I'm not sure whether or not there is one. If there isn't, there is still functioning, or the lack of it. There's the desire to be functional, and not to be living on a park bench because I can't support myself. There's the belief that the belief in an elsewhere is necessary to be functional.What "I" is there to function? What is this "I" that you speak about? The thinker of thoughts? The doer of doing?
I don't believe things, but there seems to be an I which experiences having beliefs. This I can't be found anywhere, and if it exists, must be outside experience somewhere.If you're not the thinker of thoughts, where is the "I" that believes things?