Uncertainty exercise
-How does “Ego” arise in thought?
-It's imaginary. I guess it is thought. I was really using it to describe "egotistical traits", like thinking I know better than the guides in directing self-improvement. I don't believe in "seeing through or killing the ego". There's no real ego.
1. UNCERTAINTY: What specific uncertainty/uncertainties am I communicating along with my answer?
2. Is my uncertainty in this instance Habitual / normativ[ed]? b. Second-guessing myself? c. Actual uncertainty about my answer or the question I am answering? d. just (normal) hedging [my] bets [because I’d rather not be] pinned down?
3. my response: 1. is my interpretation of imaginary or imagination the same as thought. 2. i read it as hedging my bet from my tone, but there is some uncertainty if the “thought sense” and my very real experience of what i now call imagination are the same thing.
-Where is “i” Seen?
-I don't see anything that's not like internal mental imagery, so those are likely thoughts
1. basically: is internal imagery thought. and i guess follow up would be does it matter to try and distinguish.
2. i think this was second guessing myself, because my honest opinion is that i don’t care to stew on that difference, but there is some real confusion still on how to tell the senses apart, especially thought vs senses.
-What does “i” smell like?
-I can't smell anything related I don't think, really hard to discern
1. whether or not i could actually smell anything.
2. it feels like expressing i don’t think at the time felt safer than admitting i was kinda half in the exercise and frustrated.
-What does “i” sound like?
-Lots of voices, but is that not just thought? Not sure
1. not sure on distinction between thought and sound or sound thoughts.
2. real confusion, but i get the sense that i feel a strong need to express that confusion. it’s like some sort of hiding behind an intellectual identity or protecting that identity, probably
-What body sensations (touching) does “i” have?
-I don't think there's any body sensations.
1. whether or not there’s any body sensation in i
2. i was feeling defensive here. i think i didn’t want to admit yet that i was mostly imaginary, so it was easier to not play the game and just give the answer i think you want /logically makes senseeasi
-How does “i” arise in thought?
-I notice that in order to conjure an I right now, I essentially have to imagine it in thought. Equally, when I think there's a real I, and I flip back to sensory components, it seems like what I thought was really seeing or touching was also just imaginary.
Don't ask me how "I think there's no real I or I imagine it": it seems likely that's all thought too, still working on that see below.
1. uncertainty over whether my interpretation of imaginary was actually imaginery or was real sensation.
2. I think this one I was hedging my bets. I really didnt want to get pinned down on the i.
-Who, where, or what is the "I" to which you are referring above?
-I imagine it's all imaginary, gross. Thoughts about thoughts. Hard to know. There's lots of mental visual and audio imagery that's a bit confusing, but the suggestion of a true essence behind that seems to be like Santa claus.
1. there’s some uncertainty about how thoughts about other thoughts work, and there’s still some mix up about sensation vs thought.
2. I think this one was pretty genuine bewilderment / uncertainty.
-Which category of DE is involved?
-It's only thinking huh. I have fool myself into thinking that it's not just thoughts in order to think there's control. Like you could imagine a mechanism of control and then there's control, *but without letting those thoughts be valid there's nothing.*
1. uncertainty if it’s only thinking involved, how deep that goes.
2. This one seems like an appeal for external confirmation, likely because I didn’t want to go all the way. Some fear.
-Can a smell, sight, touch, sound, taste, or thought make anything happen?
-I don't think so, that seems absurd especially on the main 5 senses. I don't think thought can, there's a noticable desync between a thought of stop or turn and the actual movement, which is perceived by the other senses.
1. uncertainty if senses or thought sense can make anything happen.
2. I’m still uncertain about how movement actually works. “makes happen” seems ilke a story, but how it actually happens? I have no really idea.
Track any decision point when a thought - or anything else - MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
It seems like there are lots of "decision made" thoughts, but those don't clearly correlate with movement
1. confusion again about the interplay between thought and movement and how movement really works.
2. This one to me reads like genuine confusion. If I recall, I was getting to the point of “looked too many times, not sure if interpertation or valid”.
-Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
-Not really I don't think. Outside of thinking, action definitely flows smoothly, painlessly without a clear decision point.
1. uncertainty if I could find a separate individual?
2. this one to me reads like self doubt. hard to know, but “i don’t think I could find anything?” makes no sense.
What is it that is controlling the hand?
I don't know. Thoughts say I should be able to know or this is something controlling it, but that's it.
1. what’s actually controlling the hand is still uncertain to me. is it to you?
2. genuine uncertainty.
How is the decision made?
Again I don't know. I can kinda see thoughts framing a decision, even making one, but the moment of real movement does cleanly align
1. uncertainty: if decisious is only thought.
2. i think it is. action still happens withhout any thought. decision-like-behavior also happens without thought. thoughts are where I can most clearly find what i’d call “a decison,” and it doesn’t lign up perfectly with action. soooo, yes.
todays questions
1. As a matter of experience, is there any distinction between “ego” and any other “part” of “self”?
As far as non-duality uses ego, probably not. I think of self as like the process of thinking plus whatever thinks it’s a real entity / being, which I sometimes think of as me. Can’t say a whole lot about this question, because i’m not really sure what youre asking / pointing to.
2.Does “ego” use a different set of senses than the “rest” of “self” in order to strut its stuff?
I use ego to discuss the negative parts of self that I don’t like, like arrogance, but you just told me that ya’ll use it to essentially describe self. So, no.
3 Where is “ego/I” to be found in direct experience.
As best I can tell, the I is either totally found in thought, or assumed to be in thought but not actually there. I think it’s assumed to be in thought, nothing concrete is even “in thought” the way that my laptop is in the visual field / inseperable from it. need more looking at that if you think it’s worth it, it’s depressing for me a bit
4 Where does it recede to after it’s done putzing, futzing, and fizzing about?
great question. Since it’s only in thought or adjacent, i’m not really sure what’s happening when i’m not thinknig I i I. stuff is still happening, so it’s not like “death,” but it’s not clear that I exist; it’s kinda like how santa exists but only as a story we tell a lot. But the real world still goes on regardless of a belief in santa. I also can’t ditch all the I writing, and idk why this isn’t total freedom lol but rather upsetting almost.
