Illusion

[Julieta1]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self is not real. I feel like a person, with a body and a personal history. I identify as such even though I understand (not know in my own experience!) that that is JUST A THOUGHT, an ILLUSION.

What are you looking for at LU?
Cutting free from the illusion of self
Pit an end to seeking freedom
Peace.
Being present here and now.
Not looking for solutions in books, retreats, teaching, etc.
Ending the search for truth.
Being at home in the present moment.
Seeing that the "me" is a stupid construction of the mind

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Guidance.
Help to see what I cannot see
Help me see how I keep getting stuck in a path of a seeker.
Breaking through the identity of the person and the idea that freedom is to be found somewhere else in the future!
No self. No future. No seeker. Why cant I see this?!

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I had many spiritual experiences. I thought many times that "I" was home. But then the confusion and identification came back... 9 years of advaita, 3 of Tibetan Buddhism. Time with the Theravada. Mindfulness teacher. Meditation teacher. Yoga teacher. I tried so much!!!

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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[Elad]

Hello Julieta (is that what you want to be called here?),

I am a guide here. Are you ready to start?

[Elad]

Hi Julieta,
(Is that what you want me to call you?)

Great!

So the he way this works is that I’ll give you questions and exercises to help you investigate whether there is a separate self. Your task is to look directly at your sensory experience in the here and now and report on your experience without input from memory, thinking, and imagination. Try to approach these exercises with “beginner’s mind,” setting aside everything you know about spiritual teachings, science, and philosophy. In other words, don't "think about" what I ask. Use all questions and exercises as door to LOOK AT what is actually there and what is not.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQs of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When you reply to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. This will make our dialogue easier to follow. Please watch the video below to learn how to use the quote function.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

Please respond here on the thread from now on.

The website goes down at times. To avoid losing your work, you may find it helpful to copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there, and then copy and paste them to your thread.

Let’s try to post daily, if we can. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, just let me know. I’ll do so as well. If I don't seem to answer for more then 2 days, write to eladexplore1111@gmail.com - maybe there is some system error.

Let me know if you have any questions about anything in this message. If everything sounds ok, we can start.

[Julieta1]

(Is that what you want me to call you?)

YES!
I am just seeing how to follow the steps for clear communication.

If everything sounds ok, we can start.

Yes! everything sounds good to me. Thank you!
Looking forward to examining the questions and inquire into the direct experience of non-self!
Please let me know, whether I followed the technical indications for the communication or there is something that needs to be done differently. Thank you.
Please know that English is not my mother tongue. So there will be mistakes here and there. I am fluent in English but definitely do make mistakes! Please let me know, if things are being expressed in an unclear manner. I will try to be as clear as possible. Thank you!
Love
Julieta

[Elad]

Hey Julieta, this is all great.. Lets start!

Read the following sentence many times:


Here is no separate self, no one in control, there never has been and never will be!


Every time you read it, slow or quick, out loud or inside, see what happens. Just pay attention to what happens.

After doing it many times, write me what was seen, felt, discovered.

[Julieta1]

Every time you read it, slow or quick, out loud or inside, see what happens. Just pay attention to what happens.

After doing it many times, write me what was seen, felt, discovered.

I notice an emotional response. Some kind of a softness in the chest. Tears in the eyes. An experience of melting/dissolving into a "open space"?

[Julieta1]

This is a recurring experience. While I walk, there is the feeling/sense that "no one" walking. No movement. A dissolution or a lack of center/being. The mind feels wide open. It seems like the talking is being done. The activities are taking place. But then, in other situations, there are strong feelings of identification with Julieta. I was in a call this afternoon with dharma co-teachers for an upcoming retreat. There are strong personalities in this group. I saw insecurity arising and a sense of wanting to protect "my self". There the feelings were quite dominant. The clarity or the space to NOT identify with the feeling experience was not there.

[Elad]

Every time you read it, slow or quick, out loud or inside, see what happens. Just pay attention to what happens.

After doing it many times, write me what was seen, felt, discovered.

I notice an emotional response. Some kind of a softness in the chest. Tears in the eyes. An experience of melting/dissolving into a "open space"?

Great. Please do this some more, and see what happens, and let me know.

On to your next message...

[Elad]

This is a recurring experience. While I walk, there is the feeling/sense that "no one" walking. No movement. A dissolution or a lack of center/being. The mind feels wide open. It seems like the talking is being done. The activities are taking place. But then, in other situations, there are strong feelings of identification with Julieta. I was in a call this afternoon with dharma co-teachers for an upcoming retreat. There are strong personalities in this group. I saw insecurity arising and a sense of wanting to protect "my self". There the feelings were quite dominant. The clarity or the space to NOT identify with the feeling experience was not there.

It is very normal that the sense of self is more strong and sticky in some social situations... For us here this is in fact a good opportunity.... So next times it happens, DON"T TRY TO GET RID OF OR DISIDENTIFY FROM THIS SENSE OF SELF. Instead just be really curious about it.

What does it consist of in direct experience? (I.e. not thinking about it, observing)

Look closely, many times, let me know what is seen/felt/discovered.

[Julieta1]

This is a recurring experience. While I walk, there is the feeling/sense that "no one" walking. No movement. A dissolution or a lack of center/being. The mind feels wide open. It seems like the talking is being done. The activities are taking place. But then, in other situations, there are strong feelings of identification with Julieta. I was in a call this afternoon with dharma co-teachers for an upcoming retreat. There are strong personalities in this group. I saw insecurity arising and a sense of wanting to protect "my self". There the feelings were quite dominant. The clarity or the space to NOT identify with the feeling experience was not there.

It is very normal that the sense of self is more strong and sticky in some social situations... For us here this is in fact a good opportunity.... So next times it happens, DON"T TRY TO GET RID OF OR DISIDENTIFY FROM THIS SENSE OF SELF. Instead just be really curious about it.

What does it consist of in direct experience? (I.e. not thinking about it, observing)

Look closely, many times, let me know what is seen/felt/discovered.

I noticed "hot sensations" in the body. Irritability. ANGER.

[Julieta1]

Here is no separate self, no one in control, there never has been and never will be!


When I read these statements, the mind stops. I do not observe any particular emotion. There is a noticing of the bench that is holing the weight of my body. I notice the shoulders. a bit of a dissolution of the boundaries between the body and the space around it. There is a sense that there is nobody there, really!

[Julieta1]

It is very normal that the sense of self is more strong and sticky in some social situations... For us here this is in fact a good opportunity.... So next times it happens, DON"T TRY TO GET RID OF OR DISIDENTIFY FROM THIS SENSE OF SELF. Instead just be really curious about it.

Today I had an interaction with my ex-partner that brought up similar feelings as yesterday. There was no room to notice the process of identification with "no self". Anger was felt in the body. I think it is a feeling of contraction in the chest area. That brought up surprise. It seems like the emotions just express themselves at the moment. Not much filter or mechanisms to control them. There was a sense of "rightness". A feeling that "I am for sure right!." And then as a response to my own reaction and reactivity, a feeling of "dislike to that feeling".

[Elad]

It is very normal that the sense of self is more strong and sticky in some social situations... For us here this is in fact a good opportunity.... So next times it happens, DON"T TRY TO GET RID OF OR DISIDENTIFY FROM THIS SENSE OF SELF. Instead just be really curious about it.

Today I had an interaction with my ex-partner that brought up similar feelings as yesterday. There was no room to notice the process of identification with "no self". Anger was felt in the body. I think it is a feeling of contraction in the chest area. That brought up surprise. It seems like the emotions just express themselves at the moment. Not much filter or mechanisms to control them. There was a sense of "rightness". A feeling that "I am for sure right!." And then as a response to my own reaction and reactivity, a feeling of "dislike to that feeling".

Good good, now just keep noticing these strong feelings and thoughts that come after, no trying to change any of it. Just look.


Is any of this in your control? Or is all of it spontaneously arising?

Does all of it show that there is no self in control?

Or is there anything there that is actually in the control of a separate self?

There was no room to notice the process of identification with "no self".

You should not look at a process of identifiying with no self. Just look at what actually happens, what is there, what is fantasy. Without trying to identify with anything or change anything.

[Julieta1]

It is very normal that the sense of self is more strong and sticky in some social situations... For us here this is in fact a good opportunity.... So next times it happens, DON"T TRY TO GET RID OF OR DISIDENTIFY FROM THIS SENSE OF SELF. Instead just be really curious about it.

Hi!
what I noticed today is a bundle of sensations in the stomach. Thoughts that create a feeling of heat in the head and a desire to get rid of that energy, let it out, let it express itself.
I was inquiring/reflecting on the sentences related to the self: "there is no self. There will never be one."

I keep finding emptiness of thought as those sentences are being said in the mind.
What happened today was that there was sense / feeling saying: yeah, that feels that way.
That is cool!
Like a new paradigm. It did not feel like a mental process but maybe it was!
What do you think?
Do you have more ideas for me to work with?
Thank you!

[Elad]

Lovely!


Keep enjoying the emptiness of thought when it happens, keep voicing the sentence "there is no separate self, no doer, no controller" many times, and see what happens...

And also, whenever you find yourself coming in or out of that "emptiness of thought", look: Is there a separate self who controls going in and out of it? Is there a separate self in anything at all?

Or is it like the Buddha said about everything (paraphrased): "This is not mine, not me, not my self".

Is it true that everything. even thoughts and beliefs about self, is spontaneous process without a self?